surrealism

[mimefan599]

I looked on wikipepia for the definition of surrealism because I had earlier heard that Lewis G Carroll's books of Alice in wonderland and through the looking glass had been written from the style of surrealism. I read in GO Ask Alice, a book that has no ties to lewis g carroll, that the girl wondered if Carroll was on drugs. I instantly found this to be preposterous and if he was it had nothing to do with his writings. I researched surrealism and it summed up all of my views on internal inspiration of the human mind. Drugs may be able to break down inhibitions to be able to reach the subconscous but overall the users are distanced even further from the beauties of the human mind. Surrealism, I believe, is literary, music, paintings or anything that promotes throwing logic out of your way of thinking temporarily in order to be inspired by the beauty of our own heads. LSD cannot show you anything that cannot be seen to those who are clean and want to see it. I believe that if you want to hallucinate or trip out or whatever like so many people have been requesting is to be inspired by things around you, particularly surrealistic things, and daily meditation on the inspirations of what you have seen and you can do anything inside of your own mind. Logic does not always have a place in our world and it takes inspriration and meditation to see that and to tap the immense well of beauty and power we have and control we can have over our own minds.

[ecoli]

The title of "Go Ask Alice" was indirectly taken from Lewis Carrol's Alice's Adventures in Wonderland. The journal with the title took it from the Jefferson Airplace Song "White Rabbit," a song about the Carrol's book.

 

By what you've stated in your post, you've obviously never taken a trip on LSD before.

[mimefan599]

I am saying this out of disgust at the claim that drugs can make a channel to the subconscios and promote creativity that is fresh out of the subconcios. Perhaps LSD was a bad analogy but it was the one on hand. What I am saying is that there are ways for the thinking and registering mind to delve into the subconscios, superceding the filters of logic and proportion as Janis Joplin said it. This struck me as the most beautiful and truthful thing ive heard since E=mc2. It is so truthful because being inspired by things that had no logic nor proportion did put me in a state of awe and trance. Many people have been requesting how to induce hallucination without drugs, and I believe that surrealism manifested in the great and powerful human subconscios can inspire and give the ability for one to live inside of the subconscios mind, where white nights will talk backwards and the doormouse will talk to you and a million other fantastic things. One can see something in 100 different dimensions without drugs and one can adventure to wonderland merely by the will and concentration, something only attainable by regular meditation. People have been wondering how to live and breath and leave and go back to the state of mind where anything can happen inside of your own head without the bummers and come downs and after effects.

 

I suppose this could be related to the state of mind often called a trance, but rather a living, breathing, ongoing yet willfull trance in which the laws of logic and perception need not apply. This is called surrealism in my opinion. And I belive you reach the peak of surrealism by meditation and inspiration. Once you reach the peak, nothing is impossible. Every sensation you wish is at your disposal where enlightenment and inspiration and the true mind lies. One could live in this state and leave it and come back at will. There is a certain, wonderful feeling i get when i look at things like dripping clocks and long rabbit holes and i hear things like white rabbit and the end (the doors one, not linkin park). There are two feelings i subscribe to: The love I feel for my girfriend and the inspiration I recieve that seems to tug me into my own subconsios. The latter is labeled as surrealism and that is good enough for me.

[mimefan599]

In a nutshell, one can supercede restraints neccesary for the sustaining of life, something that can be put off until a little later, in order to expand one mind to the senses being unplugged and replugged in different ways causing sensations that could make one enjoy life more and make that person look at normal things things with more importance.

[pink_trike]

LSD cannot show you anything that cannot be seen to those who are clean and want to see it.

 

I very strongly disagree based on my own experiences with LSD. It is an understatement to say that LSD opens windows of consciousness that are not available to ordinary mind.

 

but overall the users are distanced even further from the beauties of the human mind.

 

The exact opposite is true for most people. The LSD experience actually embraces the human mind, its beauties and horrors, in intimate ways that no other experience can.

 

For me, the only thing that has come close is the focused trained practice of observing the mind (meditation) for extended periods on a regular basis over a period of many years. It takes much longer, but eventually it opens different (and just as profound) windows of consciousness as LSD does. I recommend it over LSD. In fact, I no longer recommend LSD at all...the physical toll just isn't worth it.

[the tree]

I have nearly always taken the stance that LSD is not worth going anywhere near. If you want to know what the human mind is capable of then read books, meditate and talk to people.

I am saying this out of disgust at the claim that drugs can make a channel to the subconscios and promote creativity that is fresh out of the subconcios.

Who made this claim?

What I am saying is that there are ways for the thinking and registering mind to delve into the subconscios' date=' superceding the filters of logic and proportion as Janis Joplin said it.[/quote']Why would you want to?

Many people have been requesting how to induce hallucination without drugs, and I believe that surrealism manifested in the great and powerful human subconscios can inspire and give the ability for one to live inside of the subconscios mind, where white [k]nights will talk backwards and the doormouse will talk to you and a million other fantastic things.

What have surrealism and random fantasies got to do with the subconsious?

One can see something in 100 different dimensions without drugs and one can adventure to wonderland merely by the will and concentration' date=' something only attainable by regular meditation.[/quote']Of course a world without "drugs" is still incredible, and mediation isn't the only way either: it doesn't take mediation to sit in front of a philharmonic orcestra or to gaze at the reading room of the British museum.

But I wonder what you think the difference is, why is a rush of endorphine from your own body all that different from an artificial one?

My belief is that the human mind is bright enough to tell the difference between being high and being happy so when happiness is avaliable I always go for that option, as it seems more fun.

In a nutshell, one can supercede restraints neccesary for the sustaining of life, something that can be put off until a little later, in order to expand one mind to the senses being unplugged and replugged in different ways causing sensations that could make one enjoy life more and make that person look at normal things things with more importance.

Of course, one can spend a few hours sitting in a public libary, listening to music or whatever but what is your great revalation?

[sunspot]

There are aspects of the unconscious mind connected to surrealism. These are among what are called the archetypes of the collective unconscious by Carl Jung. The archetypes amount to personality software that is common to all human. It is what makes humans, human with respects to needs and behavior. There is a range of archetypes and each subcategory will output to consciousness, via the imagination, at various levels of perception. Being collective the ouptut in one person's imagination can often be related to by other people. Good authors are the best example.

 

Surrealism creates an illogical relationship between objects. This type of output is based on lower level archetypes that output thought perception below the logical. It is not higher human potential but more primative human potential before rational output was reliably perceived. The activity of the personality software is hard to explain with existing theory, so it is assumed not to exist.

 

The way it works is connected to the extrapolation of existing memory. Memory organization that is not quite rational but more subjective can be extrapolated by the personality software into new memory organization that is still not quite logical. For example, a talking rabbit has a watch. The talking, the rabbit and the watch are all solid data from visual input or learning. These are extrapolated into subjective personifications and then the three extrapolations are extrapolated together to form a relationship that is not quite logical. The archetypes last for a finite duration of time allowing the fantasy to continue to extrapolate, unfolding the story.

 

Authors help the fantasy by adding connecting pieces here and there, but the archetype projection will often be what is fueling the imagination with the surrealistic relationships. These often induce spontaneously or can be activated with strong drugs like LSD.

 

There are also higher level archetypes which extrapolate rational data into new rational relations or even into spatial relationships. It works the same way, but these start with rational memory organization and extrapolate from there. A mystery writing may use two levels simulataneously to add fantasy to a complex rational story line.

[mimefan599]

So the things provided when the mind is free of constraints like survival instinct, sex drive (but not always), need for food, would be a direct testament to the creativity of the human mind. One could live there if one wanted, or thier registering mind could, but that is not the point.

 

And come on Tree, who doesnt want to live in wonderland for a bit, that is why drug levels are so high, they want to explore thier own brain, every dead head like mself knows that. Do you ever get that feeling, when you see something very different, but real enough to realte to, that creates a new world almost, and you just want to explore? That is why, that feeling alone.

 

Sunspot, I like you.

[mimefan599]

Basically, I started this thread because i read in go ask alice that the girl had wondered if Carroll (alice in wonderland author) was on drugs, and I wanted to be a little clearer or clarify as to the roots of creativity. Being an ex pot head, I know many people think that drugs promote creativity. I also know this is false. I beleive that surreal things and thinkning and art create a doorway to the unconscios, not drugs, and anyone who thinks so is a fool.

[ecoli]

Basically, I started this thread because i read in go ask alice that the girl had wondered if Carroll (alice in wonderland author) was on drugs, and I wanted to be a little clearer or clarify as to the roots of creativity. Being an ex pot head, I know many people think that drugs promote creativity. I also know this is false. I beleive that surreal things and thinkning and art create a doorway to the unconscios, not drugs, and anyone who thinks so is a fool.

 

Welcome to the land of logical fallacies... where just because you say so, does not make it true.

[Zingaro]

As a lover of poetry of the Romantic School I once read a statement by Tennyson that he was the only non-drug user of the group. On the one hand I wondered whether I believed him; on the other I understood why Colleridge, Byron, De Quincy, and Mary Shelley (with her Frankenstein novel) were much greater writers than he was.

 

Remember opium sold for a penny in Carrol's day. Xanadu by Colleridge is accepted as an opium poem. I think the rabbit hole came from the same source.

[bascule]

I have nearly always taken the stance that LSD is not worth going anywhere near. If you want to know what the human mind is capable of then read books, meditate and talk to people.Who made this claim?Why would you want to?

 

I think acid and other entheogens including salvia divinorum have aided me in my own (very much unscientific) autophenomenological research into epistemology. I think throwing a monkey wrench into your consciousness provides a unique perspective for observing its operation.

 

I like to think my own understanding of consciousness, albeing gleaned and purloined off the gestalt consciousness of many modern thinkers, is fairly clear and would not be that way without realizations I've had while on acid.

[JesuBungle]

You don't need drugs to be creative. If you want a different way of thinking, meditate. The only possible use i see for things like LSD is that it's an easier way to induce meditation...for you lazy pot heads out there:D