Question about the big crunch. Opposite of big bang…

[redvolution]

Some believe that soon this universe will end (or begin…lol) with a big crunch. I just cannot understand how everything in the universe can just form into one single point.

 

Here is my simple example: If I take a + and – magnet and throw them at each other, sometimes the will stick together and sometimes they will fly away from each other. The magnetism symbolizes gravity.

 

Well, thanks if someone could answer this.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Well, big bang theory has become "obselete" in a way. There are newer ideas, such as inflationary cosmology, that make more sense.

 

In inflationary cosmology, you only need around 20 pounds of matter to form the entire universe, and that sounds a lot more reasonable. The way it works has been explained by me before here.

 

Hope that helps.

[sunspot]

Most people when they think of a big crunch they go from a lot of matter into a blackhole. The big crunch of a cyclic universe might correlate to the reverse of the forward expansion of the BB. If one plays inflation backwards you get a different termination point that is not a blackhole.

[sunspot]

If we look at the black holes seen in the universe, and a big crunch type black hole, these are not the same set of conditions. Any finite black hole forms with the majority of the matter, energy and space still within the universe. A big crunch black hole is different in that all the matter, energy and space would have to be compacted. This may not be do-able.

 

For example, if a finite blackhole creates a whitehole elsewhere in the universe, if all the universe is being pulled in, where is the elsewhere? The big crunch blackhole might go into a tight blackhole-whitehole recycle mode, i.e., primordial atom?

[Klaynos]

If we look at the black holes seen in the universe' date=' and a big crunch type black hole, these are not the same set of conditions. Any finite black hole forms with the majority of the matter, energy and space still within the universe. A big crunch black hole is different in that all the matter, energy and space would have to be compacted. This may not be do-able.

 

For example, if a finite blackhole creates a whitehole elsewhere in the universe, if all the universe is being pulled in, where is the elsewhere? The big crunch blackhole might go into a tight blackhole-whitehole recycle mode, i.e., primordial atom?[/quote']

 

You assume that whiteholes have to exist for blackholes to be true, why?

[sunspot]

Good question. I did not assume that both had to exist together but was using an example of both working together to create a steady state that is neither a whitehole or blackhole. i..e, grayhole. The expansion of the BB in such a scenario implies the grayhole somehow becoming whiter.

[bobosmokey]

I'm not sure if I am correct. This is just my theory on the universe. I was thinking about black holes one day. I picture back holes as large black balls of mass like a magnet. Anytime a magnet ball gets next to something metal it picks it up. That's the same thing with blackholes. Ecxcept they attract all matter. So say stars keep creating black holes. Soon these black holes will be so close to each other they will attract each other and lots more matter. And from what I know about black holes the more weight they gain, the more they collaspe on themselves and the greater the attraction between it and matter will be. So all matter (which I believe is infinite) will come together to create a ball that will weigh infinite pounds. It will take up the smallest amount of space and it wil exist for the smallest amount of time before becoming unstable it has no choice but to explode.

 

But that's just my $.02.

[Klaynos]

One question:

Why would it explode?

[Dark Photon]

you need to study into the theory in greater detail.

[sunspot]

When theorizing about the creation of universe, one has to keep in mind what we know for sure, which one needs to take into account. The first thing is the universe is expanding. There is a lot of data to support this even though all wavelengths have not yet been demonstrated. The cosmic microwave background is uniform instead of red shifted, even though the perimeter has always outrun the more center regions according to the reliable red shift data. This anomaly can be explain with the heating of space, caused by all the galaxies and stars, generating the CMB, i.e., 2.7K will radiate at the proper microwave level.

 

If one plays an exansion backwards, the logical result is some sort of singularity. Eternal and steady state universes have problems with the expansion data. All need continuous additions and/or subtractions. Among all the data collected thus far, such data as these, are more speculative than solidified by hard data.

 

One logical option of playing an expansion backwards is a blackhole. But to make that model work, one needs a mechanism for it to expand. The option I suggested is a blackhole generating whiteholes very close by. The parallel between these two phenomena is speculative but there is some consensus that black can lead to white. Since space is so contracted at the begininng, if these two phenomena appear in the same close region, it is a easier to expand from, since the pair sort of cancels to some extent.

 

In another forum I tried to accommodate the astral physics data from last fall that suggests that some galaxies formed quite early in the expansion. This observation tells us that a continuum expansion won't work because it can not produce galaxies fast enough without getting too sci-fi. Rather, common sense indicates that one needs a discontinuous expansion.

 

An entropy consideration can provide the needed potential for a discontinuous expansion. If somehow space expanded at the speed of light, this would set an entropy potential for the primordial atom to expand. Since big chunks contain less entropy (more order) than a lot of little continuum pieces (more disorder; more entropy), the big chunks can go much further into space with the same entropy potential. This would give them the best chance of keeping up with the light speed expansion of space. This need is based on the consensus opinion that space and the primordial atom expand together. It also provides big chunks for fast galaxy formation all in one theory.

 

The only interface left to complete the model is getting space to expand out of the blackhole/whitehole (primordial atom or grayhole). The matter/energy will follow due to the entropy potential created due to the balance created by the blackhole/whitehole.

[sunspot]

This model for the primordial atom and the BB is new to me. It came to me over the past week. Personally, I prefer MDT cosmology because it is very flexible because it predicts six possible scenarios; two wave, two continuum and two discontinuous expansions, leading to both open and closed universes. Wherever the data goes the model can easily follow. What I decided to do was use existing theory, basic assumptions, the preponderance of the data to come up with something more mainstream. If anyone is interested in completing the model, they are welcome to it.

[sunspot]

I would like to add something that came to me last night. This is more conceptual imagery than anything else, but interesting to ponder. If we look at a blackhole it expresses two reference features. On the one hand, we see a point in space of extreme gravity. Yet if one was on the blackhole, its extreme gravity creates a relativity affect, where distance appears contracted. What we see as a point, sees itself almost touching infinity.

 

Picture if the blackhole got greedy and decided it also wanted to pull its near infinite perception into itself so it could be a point that would see itself as a point. Once it begins to reel in its infinite perception boundry, its point size within our reference will begin to expand, since this would mean it is losing relativity and is therefore losing gravity.

 

Although a blackhole can not pull in its infinite distance perception, if a whitehole forms this can happen. By expanding from a point it is essentially reeling in the infinite view of the blackhole, since the gravity density and relativity decreases. If it expanded all the way to infinity, (hypotetically) it would become so sparse as to now define points in infinite space. One might notice an oscillation.

 

Using these conceptual images, if a BB whitehole expanded it can never reach infinity because that would impy that its relativity reference would have to get smaller than its size. These two references can not reverse since it would require something like negative relativity. The oscillation is like a sine wave with the tops chopped off causing the whitehole expansion to reach finite size and then linger there before contracting. This linger time may be where blackholes form throughout the universe. When enough form, the oscillation enters the bottom or blackhole part of the sine wave