9/11 Truth

[Sayonara]

I will have to look at that tomorrow, because it is 03.24 here

 

However I would warn that laying out evidence and providing a cogent and reliable interpretation of said evidence are two different beasts.

[JustStuit]

Here’s something that will open your eyes. Get a hold of the many fine documentaries on the topic such as Loose Change 2.

 

This documentary' date=' despite its few minor flaws and disputable assertions, lays out a sampling of the unquestionably damning evidence that has been gathered.

 

None of this evidence is speculation or accusation; it is in fact part of public record.

 

http://www.loosechange911.com/

Here's something : Get out of the country if you think the government is so horrible! Your freedom is too great you can't even appreciate it. Unless you got some proof, you're just shooting in the dark. And I repeat, Why does it have to be a conspiracy? To get supporting evidense you must grasp at straws and horrifically stretch the truth.

[bascule]

If by logic you mean believing in the official line

 

Wow, case in point, thanks for illustrating for everyone that you are completely incapible of logically coherent thought.

 

Here’s something that will open your eyes. Get a hold of the many fine documentaries on the topic such as Loose Change 2.

 

I already posted my reaction to that piece of sh*t. Why don't you bother reading what the army of real experts assembled by the 9/11 Commission had to say, rather than the unsubstantiated ranting and raving of some conspiracy theorist nut?

 

Oh, I know why, because the 9/11 Commission is in on the conspiracy just like the Warren Comission was in on the Kennedy Assassination, and all their evidence is therefore forfeit, right?

 

Something tells me that you've never even bothered to look at the 9/11 Comission report, have you?

[Nevermore]

Here's something : Get out of the country if you think the government is so horrible!

HEY! That is the most awful, unpatriotic, treasonous remark I've ever heard. In america, if you don't like things, you change them. So, franklin, don't leave the country. Vote.

 

Bascule, the 9/11 commission was hired by, paid by, and briefed by the administration. If bush says somthing, that's all they know about it. And still, there's no explanation for:

lack of 757 debris at the pentagon

hole only half the size of the fuslage of 757 in pentagon

no marks on the ground where the plane "bounced"

large box being carried away under a tarp at pentagon

sending all but 6 jets away from the east coast before the attack for wargames

planted debris from various other planes at pentagon

metal in hole bent outwards, indicating a bomb went off inside

 

And bascule, the taliban claimed responsibility because they're getting credit for simthing they didn't have to actually do.

There may be some crazy-ass conspirathy theories out there, but this is actually credible.

[Franklin]

Here's something : Get out of the country if you think the government is so horrible! Your freedom is too great you can't even appreciate it. Unless you got some proof, you're just shooting in the dark. And I repeat, Why does it have to be a conspiracy? To get supporting evidense you must grasp at straws and horrifically stretch the truth.

 

Thanks for the comments and they are welcome.

 

Fortunately I live in a democracy where your views and mine are able to be expressed freely.

[bascule]

Bascule, the 9/11 commission was hired by, paid by, and briefed by the administration. If bush says somthing, that's all they know about it.

 

Wrong. The 9/11 Commission is a bipartisan comission created by Congress, not some administration lackeys. For the love of God stop getting your information solely from conspiracy theorist web sites.

 

And still, there's no explanation for:

lack of 757 debris at the pentagon

 

There's plenty of 757 debris at the crash site. It's extensively documented here:

 

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/pages/911_pentagon_757_plane_evidence.html

 

hole only half the size of the fuslage of 757 in pentagon

 

The 757's fuselage has approximately a 13 foot diameter, and the hole is reported to be 16 to 20 feet wide. So, no, sorry, this claim is simply incorrect.

 

(more conspiracy theorist jibberish)

 

You're making me want to stab myself in the eyes right now.

 

planted debris from various other planes at pentagon

 

Of course, all the debris there were planted after the fact as part of the conspiracy! What a great way to explain away evidence...

 

metal in hole bent outwards, indicating a bomb went off inside

 

Of course, metal cannot POSSIBLY BEND OUTWARDS (provided this claim is true) except from the blast of a bomb! It makes perfect sense. Oh wait, fallacy: non sequitur

 

And bascule, the taliban claimed responsibility because they're getting credit for simthing they didn't have to actually do.

 

And yet not a single person, even throughout the course of being systematically hunted down by the US, ever blabbed about the conspiracy. They all went along with it, I guess. Just like every single person who must've been involved in staging something as elaborate as 9/11 and keeping it covered up.

 

Bush couldn't keep the illegal wiretapping program under wraps and you're saying he could keep something of this magnitude secret from the American public? Please...

 

There may be some crazy-ass conspirathy theories out there, but this is actually credible.

 

Why don't you examine the evidence to the contrary before you make such retarded assertions...

[JustStuit]

HEY! That is the most awful' date=' unpatriotic, treasonous remark I've ever heard. In america, if you don't like things, [i']you change them[/i]. So, franklin, don't leave the country. Vote.

He should vote but I sure hope he would make sure his facts were straight before attempting to do anything about a 9/11 "conspiracy". There are so many other things that are much more deserving of time and resources then just saying there was a government conpiracy. If he has good reasons it would be understandable but he hasn't mentioned one yet.

And what would he vote for? To punish or change the government for an event they weren't proved to be responisible for? That sounds treasonous to me. Just to change things because this little speculation that the government was responsible. Proof. You need proof.

 

Also,

I'm just wondering, why are so many people so set on this being a conpiracy? Can you please explain. It makes no sense. Do they hold a grudge? Fear? I don't get it.

[Franklin]

Ahhh the plot thickens!

 

http://www.commondreams.org/views03/0204-06.htm

 

George W. Bush's brother was on the board of directors of a company providing electronic security for the World Trade Center, Dulles International Airport and United Airlines, according to public records. The company was backed by an investment firm, the Kuwait-American Corp., also linked for years to the Bush family.

[Franklin]

This is a landmark moment in the 9/11 Truth Movement. We have fired a flaming arrow into the heart of the myopic propaganda posing as the irrefutable official story.

 

Come one, come all, the floodgates have opened! Reveal your patriotism.

 

http://prisonplanet.com/articles/april2006/150406sheenchallenges.htm

[insane_alien]

just because there are documentaries and websites saying something doesn't automatically make it true. For instance i've seen a documentary saying that banana's have mindcontrol drugs injected into them by the government(UK) when they are imported into the country. in an eleaborate plot to turn the nation into obediant slaves. I very much doubt that this is happening. I mean not everybody eats bananas so it would be pretty ineffective. I don't like bananas, i don't eat them because of the taste. nothing more than that.

Does this exictence of this documentary mean that if i eat a banana i'll turn into a zombie of sorts? No. i'll just have a bad(in my opinion) taste in my mouth and nothing else.

[Sayonara]

Ahhh the plot thickens!

Something is thickening.

[Phi for All]

Here's something : Get out of the country if you think the government is so horrible!

"Love it or leave it" is like putting blinders on. Being part of a democracy means being cognizant of it's shortcomings as well as it's strengths.

 

Even if there is a conspiracy it can't be the entire administration who is behind it. If there are those who wanted us to go to war in the Middle East over oil and felt something like 9/11 was necessary to gain support it didn't have to be the entire Bush administration. This is where the conspiracy theorists make their biggest mistake, by trying to implicate everybody and say that everything that's ambiguous or unknown is part of the conspiracy.

 

I'm skeptical about a conspiracy, but I'm also skeptical about closing the reports and dusting our hands and calling it over when there is still evidence being uncovered. Let's wait and see how it all falls out before making too many rash judgements.

[Franklin]

Something is thickening.

LOL

[JustStuit]

"Love it or leave it" is like putting blinders on. Being part of a democracy means being cognizant of it's shortcomings as well as it's strengths.

 

Even if there is a conspiracy it can't be the entire administration who is behind it. If there are those who wanted us to go to war in the Middle East over oil and felt something like 9/11 was necessary to gain support it didn't have to be the entire Bush administration. This is where the conspiracy theorists make their biggest mistake' date=' by trying to implicate everybody and say that everything that's ambiguous or unknown is part of the conspiracy.

 

I'm skeptical about a conspiracy, but I'm also skeptical about closing the reports and dusting our hands and calling it over when there is still evidence being uncovered. Let's wait and see how it all falls out before making too many rash judgements.[/quote']

Yeah, maybe I was a little harsh. What I mean is that you should check the facts before trying to change something or so blantently blaming someone. It is normal to have suspicions, but they should be backed by facts and not acted on without certainty of the affair. Jumping to conclusions never helped anything, and fixing something that wasn't broken is a bad idea.

[Nevermore]

metal in hole bent outwards' date=' indicating a bomb went off [i'']inside

 

Of course, metal cannot POSSIBLY BEND OUTWARDS (provided this claim is true) except from the blast of a bomb! It makes perfect sense.

That is a strawman and you know it. The bomb is not the important part, the important part is that the metal bent outwards, and not inwards, indicating force from inside.

Those pictures on ats are adressed in loose change. Roles Royce says those are not part of their engines.

I'll make you a deal, I'll read the whole report if you watch the whole film.

[JustStuit]

That is a strawman and you know it. The bomb is not the important part' date=' the important part is that the metal bent outwards, and not inwards, indicating force from inside.

Those pictures on ats are adressed in loose change. Roles Royce says those are not part of their engines.

I'll make you a deal, I'll read the whole report if you watch the whole film.[/quote']

I think strawmanning would be saying it must be a bomb and therefore it is a conpiracy.

[Phi for All]

That is a strawman and you know it. The bomb is not the important part, the important part is that the metal bent outwards, and not inwards, indicating force from inside.

No strawman because you were the one who said metal bent outward indicated a bomb. You're downsizing that to "force from inside" and a strawman is something new introduced which is easier to argue against.

 

Would all the energy from a plane running into a building necessarily go in one direction?

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Franklin, you are hardly addressing anything anybody says, but just keep throwing links at us. I'm getting the impression you're doing what I did long ago in an argument with Sayonara: when all else fails, throw links at them. Please put thought into your posts.

[Nevermore]

No strawman because you were the one who said metal bent outward indicated a bomb. You're downsizing that to "force from inside" and a strawman is something new introduced which is easier to argue against.

 

Would all the energy from a plane running into a building necessarily go in one direction?

Maybe you're right. I'm out of arguments. I'll let you guys sort it out.

[Franklin]

Ah yes,but is there a difference between thinking and a gut feeling?

 

As I watched those horrific events unfolding I had a gut feeling that entities in the Bush admin were involved.

 

I know that Bin laden sitting in his cave wasn't in command of Norad issuing orders for no intercepts.

 

This what I "know".

 

"During the time that the airplane was coming in to the Pentagon, there was a young man who would come in and say to the Vice President, "The plane is 50 miles out." "The plane is 30 miles out." And when it got down to "the plane is 10 miles out," the young man also said to the Vice President, "Do the orders still stand?" And the Vice President turned and whipped his neck around and said, "Of course the orders still stand. Have you heard anything to the contrary?"

 

http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/september2004/080904wargamescover.htm

 

Studying Bush's facial expressions whilst he sat in the classroom tells me he is as guilty as sin.

 

I know that a fella by the name of Rodriguez who worked as a janitor in one of the buildings had this to say:

 

"Now, what really upsets me is that my story never appeared in the 9/11 Commission report after I told it to them behind closed doors," said Rodriguez about his 2004 meeting with commission members. "They never followed up with verifying my testimony and basically, when the report came out, there was no mention of my statements and the other evidence of a basement explosion when they decided only the airliner brought down the towers.

 

"This is totally unacceptable and shows they are trying to cover-up something. How could anybody not believe there was a massive explosion below ground level after talking with me and the other 14 people who witnessed the very same thing? It refutes the government story point blank and that’s why they wanted me behind closed doors and why they never mentioned my name or my story in their final report.

 

http://proliberty.com/observer/20050714.htm

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

You're still throwing links at us. The first one is full of assumptions ("As the plane in question hit the Pentagon, what else can we conclude but that the 'order' was not to shoot down the aircraft and to let it find its target. Mineta stated that he did not know what the 'order' was because he wasn't there when it was made." What an assumption.)

 

The second I have not read thoroughly, but I can say that the use of the word "claimed" and the lack of testimony from the other 14 makes it less convincing.

[Franklin]

Franklin, you are hardly addressing anything anybody says, but just keep throwing links at us. I'm getting the impression you're doing what I did long ago in an argument with Sayonara: when all else fails, throw links at them. Please put thought into your posts.

Without links to back up my gut feeling all I can say is that Bush and admin are complicit in the events of 9/11.

 

Of course those that toe the official line ask-but where is your proof?

 

I can't get hold of any of the molten steel to test if thermite was used.

 

I can't ring up Bush and ask-hey George were you or any in your admin responsible.

 

So what is left for me.That's right-"links" to help me confirm my intuition.

[insane_alien]

if your going to back up with links, make sure its a reliable link.

[Franklin]

We have the case of Sibel Edmonds,a former FBI translator whom has had a state secrets placed on any and everything she knows.Why?

 

Don't take my word for it.Oh well,looks like you'll have to Google some "links".

 

LOL

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Without links to back up my gut feeling all I can say is that Bush and admin are complicit in the events of 9/11.

 

Of course those that toe the official line ask-but where is your proof?

 

I can't get hold of any of the molten steel to test if thermite was used.

 

I can't ring up Bush and ask-hey George were you or any in your admin responsible.

 

So what is left for me.That's right-"links" to help me confirm my intuition.

You haven't said anything about our arguments against you, nor do I consider "gut feelings" very accurate. The scientific method involves logic, and while gut feelings may get you a good idea, they don't prove it.