Ban on Partial Birth Abortions

[BeckyK]

I think most of us can safely assume that we are not supporting the partial birth abortion as birth control. I just don't think the governement has a place saying if it is ok or not when ultimately, the ob/gyn is the one with the true medical knowledge if it is necessary to save a mother.

 

 

This is a statement from the American College of Obstetricians and Gynecologists

As noted in an ACOG Statement of Policy (1997, reaffirmed in 2000) and in ACOG's amicus curiae brief filed in the Stenberg case, although a select panel convened by ACOG could identify no circumstances under which intact D&X would be the only option to protect the life or health of a woman, intact D&X "may be the best or most appropriate procedure in a particular circumstance to save the life or preserve the health of a woman, and only the doctor, in consultation with the patient, based upon the woman's particular circumstances, can make this decision."

 

The District Court was correct to strike down the "Partial-Birth Abortion Ban Act." ACOG opposes this legislation by Congress that attempted to supersede the medical judgment of a trained physician, in consultation with a patient, as to what is the safest and most appropriate medical procedure for that particular patient.

 

I trust their judgement 100%.

[rockstarjaiden]

this topic is fairly old...been talked about since i was in jr high school...when clinton was president he banned this as well...

[mooeypoo]

So if you were walking down the street and somebody was being stabbed to death in an alley, would you turn the other way and say "thats their moral choice"?? This is murder and the government should most certainly be involved. I dont understand why anyone would be pro-choice(pro-death).

Because a woman's body is her own. I personally think men AND women need to watch for themselves. Abortion is not something fun and it's not something that SHOULD happen - but if an "accident" happened, so help me god I would hope the couple would make the right decision. It's better than having to raise a child that would grow up to KNOW he's a mistake, or grow up to a 16 year old mother.

 

In israel the rules are that it's not "automatic". If a woman wants to get an abortion, there's a committee that decides if the abortion is necessary or not. Morally, I think it's insanely outrageous, but truthfully, that thing works. I haven't heard of a woman being refused of doing the abortion, and what that committee does mostly is making sure women won't hurt themselves with recurring abortions or with illigal ones.

 

The bottom line is that a woman's body is her own, and not every pregnancy is WANTED. There are too many unwanted kids out there on the streets. I would rather removing a pack of cells. Until it BREATHS - that's what it is.

 

~moo

[blike]

The bottom line is that a woman's body is her own, and not every pregnancy is WANTED.

Everybody forgets there is a baby inside.

 

I would rather removing a pack of cells. Until it BREATHS - that's what it is.

Fetuses do have oxygen circulation though, they just don't respirate through their lungs. What about grandpa joe on a respirator? Is he a bundle of cells?

[J'Dona]

Whereas not everyone agrees and I certainly can't say that I can appreciate the situation as well as a single soon-to-be-mother might, this is the way I see it. When a couple perform their discrete undercover rummagings and conctraception happens not to work, then the mother could choose two options, a) abortion, or b) no abortion, resulting in:

 

a) One happy mother

b) One unhappy mother and an unhappy child

 

But there are two people in the second one. Now that conception has occured, is it really moral for the mother to knowingly terminate the child's life before they are born because - as she sees it - her happiness and her unborn child's happiness is more important than the child's life?

 

If you think of it mathematically (weird, but still, just showing), if the happiness is H and when you're happy you're +H and unhappy you're -H, and when you're not alive it's a null state of zero, and a life is valued at L, you get:

a) +H + L = H + L (best case scenario, not considering abortion to mean -L from aborted child)

b) -H + L - H + L = 2L - 2H

If you value a) more than b) (for abortion in other words), then you think (after cancelling an L from both sides) that H > L - 2H, or 3H > L. That means that you think that the happiness of three people is better than one person's life, which makes no sense at all.

 

Okay, forget that, it's not right bringing maths into morality. Don't quote me on that.

 

Even if you don't consider it to be "terminating the child's life" because they aren't born yet, you are still stopping someone from being born. I wonder whether preventing someone from living before they are born is better than preventing someone from living after... particularly if you replace "born" with "alive", and make the point of being "alive" so fuzzy that it could range from the night of the deed to 9 months and counting, depending on your definition.

 

So in my somewhat convoluted opinion, abortions - except in cases where the mother is at risk of death - should be banned. This is a pretty strange stance coming from me, being pretty much a liberal, but I don't believe that there's any room for "liberty" in choosing whether or not someone can live, not from the mother or anyone else.

[blike]

If people would just wear their condems and take their pills like they're supposed to

 

Woops, the condem broke! Morning after pill.

Rape? Morning after pill [it's even free at many clinics].

 

There's no need to go around killing babies because you're irresponsible. I'm sure there are exceptional circumstances, though (so don't bust my chops over some rare case where everything fails).

[-Demosthenes-]

I think that if something is attached to the mother, than it is her prerogative to do with it what she wants. If I want to cut off my hand, who's gonna stop me? Granted, the fetus might be able to survive on its own, and in that case, if the gov't wants to pay for it to be born prematurely, and taken care of, then sent to an orphanage, be my guest. So I think the right to have an abortion ends when the baby can survive outside the mother, in which case the mother still can get rid of it and never see it again, but the doctors just can't kill it. This, however, would eat up alot of gov't money, and there would be alot of messed up kids in the world.

So I lived inside another person you could kill me? That is a chilling thought, and very chilling thought. I lose all my rights if I live inside of another person, we should all pray that it will never be possible for you to live inside of another person.

 

By any and all definitions second and third trimester abortions are killing a living human being. This is not some tissue blob anymore, it has a heart beat. By week 26 the fetus can inhale, exhile, and cry. It has hands, feet, eyelids, nervous system, and internal organs. The skin is no longer transparent, and the fetus has spontaneous movements.

 

Read it for heaven sake!

[jgerlica]

blah

[-Demosthenes-]

Moddox is a weird, yet funny guy.

[ydoaPs]

abortion is sick, twisted, and wrong.

 

anyone who uses the argument "...it is her body..." should be shot due to their stupidity. the child IS NOT the woman's body. it is it's own body. if we go by "it is her body", then your mother should be able to kill you right now for no reason.

 

abortion should be acceptable in only 2 circumstances. first, the birth seriously threatens the life of the mother. second, rape. the second circumstance needs to be PROVEN. if not, you would have several sluts that don't want a kid saying "i was raped." point: you don't want a kid, keep your legs closed or use multiple forms of protection.

[coquina]

I have several friends who are Ob-Gyn's - they have been practicing for many years. I asked them about this. They told me they had never performed a PBA, nor seen one done.

 

They also said the most common reason for performing it is when the child is hydrocephalic and gets stuck in the birth canal and there is no other way to get it out. Due to ultrasound, this very rarely happens any more.

 

I approve of abortion when it is done as soon as the woman learns she is pregnant and before the end of the first trimester. I think it is better to eliminate an embryo than to bring an unwanted and unloved child into the world.

 

Think about it - why would a woman want to carry a baby almost to term and then abort it? I guess the only logical explanation would be a teenager who hoped to keep her pregnancy hidden and managed to do so until her parents found out late in the pregnancy. So - suppose the mother is a 12 or 13 year old child - does she have the right to make that decision? Do her parents have the right to make it for her?

 

In our town, a college student managed to hide her pregnancy from all around her, delivered a healthy infant, and left it on the window sill to die. Several years ago, a teenager delivered a baby in a high school bathroom and went back to the dance. (I still can't figure that one out - I've had a child, and the last thing I felt like doing was standing up. - the classic line when a man asks a woman what it feels like to give birth is to reply, "it's like pooping a watermelon.")

 

Anyhow - leaving babies on windowsills and in dumpsters is illegal. But it doesn't stop people from doing it. These are the kind of people who will seek PBA's unless something is terribly wrong with the mother or the child.

 

I know of two cases when the fetus died just a few days prior to full term. In both cases the mother was given labor inducing drugs and had a vaginal delivery. For both of those women, it was the most difficult thing they ever had to do - to go through all that agony to deliver a dead child. I would be in favor of a PBA if the child was already dead and dissecting it in utero would make the delivery easier and keep the woman from having to have a C-section.

 

One of the people this happened to was the wife of a dear friend of mine, who wife has now died of cancer. He was with her in the delivery room - this happened years ago, but he still cried when he told me about it. He has terrible memories and nightmares about the incident. If a PBA could have been done to eliminate that kind of agony - I think it should have been done, with the mother anesthetized and the father not present.

[Kleptin]

I have a question, how are PBAs done? Do they just perform a cesarian and hoist the little guy out and throw him away?

[coquina]

I have a question, how are PBAs done? Do they just perform a cesarian and hoist the little guy out and throw him away?

 

No - it is done vaginally. The baby is dismembered and pulled out in pieces. As I said in my post above, according to my gyn friends, this is not a common occurance, and reputable doctors only do it to save the mother's life.

 

The thing about PBA's and abortion in general is that making them illegal will not stop them from happening. There will always be people who are willing to make money of off terrified and desperate people.

 

Pregnancy for a young girl is a life altering event. It's the end of hopes for a career, and all too often a path that ends in poverty. Mothers often don't get the prenatal care they need, and far too often are on drugs, leading to the birth of a child who has far more challanges to face than growing up poor and unloved - they have psycological and neurological problems too.

 

It does no good to shame the girl for indescretion - or to penalize her. If she and the father marry, they marry into poverty and view the child as the agent that brought them there.

 

The loser in this situation, whether by abortion or birth, is a child nobody wanted and nobody loves.

[Kleptin]

I'm sorry, my defense mechanism always forces me to think of parodies whenever extremely serious and sober things are discussed. I keep thinking of Dr. Nick from "The Simpsons" performing the abortion, i'm horrible...

 

I just never knew that they dismembered the child, I hope that the mother is out cold while this is happening. How can the mother or the doctor continue after doing something like that?

[Skye]

The thing about PBA's and abortion in general is that making them illegal will not stop them from happening. There will always be people who are willing to make money of off terrified and desperate people.

That applies to any law, laws only act as a deterrent.

Pregnancy for a young girl is a life altering event. It's the end of hopes for a career, and all too often a path that ends in poverty.

I don't know about other places, but that's not the case here, not necessarily anyway. It will certainly make life harder, but it's possible to continue with education and employment.

[Kleptin]

The whole thing is disgusting, the way it is done makes the plight of the mother pale in comparison

[Glider]

Unless you are the mother.

[flyboy]

This is true' date=' but do you think the government cares? The government supports the death penalty and infact has it's very own capital punishment system.

 

Bush is a murderer as far as I'm concerned (just look what he did as governer of Texas) thus it is very hypocritical of him to sit here and tell future mothers they can't have partial birth abortions because it is cruel to the fetus. [/quote']

 

 

and u think kerry wouldnt of done this?

all the worlds govments are the same along with the presidents