Problems With Evolution

[herme3]

So... What's going on with this letter? Are we still writing it, or did everyone just forget about it?

[Dak]

I'm coming up to my final exams. i'd guess others are busy with revision too.

 

If it's still not done in a month (ie, after my exams), i'll start work on it again.

[silkworm]

I'm having finals/health issues, but I'll begin workin on the letter nonstop on Monday.

 

I'm very much not forgetting about it. It's the number 1 video at ICR and it's full of lies.

[AzurePhoenix]

I have stuff I have to add in as well, I'm just smoothing them over and looking for some more supporting sources. Once this last week of class is done with, I'll throw all of my stuff together.

[silkworm]

I just thought I'd post here to say that I will no longer be working on that particular letter, but I have donated my work on it. I will be writing a letter of my own and starting this afternoon. I should be done in a week or so. I'd explain more but I'm no longer allowed to speak here in any real sense, and I'd rather not have my message deleted.

 

My participation in this site will also be non-existant or at least extremely limited in the very near future. But I will post my letter somewhere here, if it does not get deleted, so those who wish to endorse it may do so.

 

Thanks. It's been nice talking with everybody.

[herme3]

I just thought I'd post here to say that I will no longer be working on that particular letter' date=' but I have donated my work on it. I will be writing a letter of my own and starting this afternoon. I should be done in a week or so. I'd explain more but I'm no longer allowed to speak here in any real sense, and I'd rather not have my message deleted.

 

My participation in this site will also be non-existant or at least extremely limited in the very near future. But I will post my letter somewhere here, if it does not get deleted, so those who wish to endorse it may do so.[/quote']

 

Why are there going to be two letters? That's just confusing because the first letter should say everything that needs to be said. Although Silkworm is welcomed to help out on the existing letter, I don't think he should be writing his own letter. By reading some of his other posts, I think that Silkworm might be crazy.

 

Here's part of one of his other posts:

 

I just wanted to say that the only way that I can live honestly as an indiscriminate serial rapist and lobbyist is through Satanism.

 

I used to be an atheist. Charles Darwin was going for the clergy and became an atheist when his favorite daughter died. I've had many of the same experiences' date=' and thank God he had the natural selection for me to misinterpret and blow out of proportion. So, Charles Darwin and I became atheists for much of the same reasons.

 

But that wasn't enough to be a bad person such as myself. What you need is a never ending acid trip, a belief in something imaginary. You see, atheism makes too much sense. You have to believe in something more powerful than yourself in order to devalue human life. That's why I'm a satanist.[/quote']

 

I don't mind atheism, but being a satanist and a serial rapist is a completely different issue. He also talks about misinterpreting natural selection, which is the complete opposite of what we want to do. Silkworm might have just been joking in that post, but some of his other posts in various threads have been disturbing. The point is, Silkworm appears to have some mental issues and probably shouldn't be sending his own letter about the same time we send ours. If both letters are sent close to the same time period, the people who receive them might make a connection between them. Anything that sounds insane or immoral in Silkworm's letter might damage our own reputations.

 

If Silkworm wants to help, he should help create the letter we have already started. It will eliminate any confusion, and if he says anything that we all can't agree with, we can remove it from the letter. I don't see any reason why he wants to start another letter unless he is planning to say something that he knows we will disagree with.

[silkworm]

Why are there going to be two letters? That's just confusing because the first letter should say everything that needs to be said. Although Silkworm is welcomed to help out on the existing letter, I don't think he should be writing his own letter. By reading some of his other posts, I think that Silkworm might be crazy.

 

Okay, herme3. Why don't you form an army and try and stop me? Better yet, call your congressman, pray to God. Do everything in your power to stop me. Let's see how that works out for you.

 

I'm writing it on my own to insure that the letter is written as perfectly as possible and so I don't have to fight against people like you.

 

The post about Satanism was a symbolic comment about how atheists are potrayed as evil when they should just be portrayed as rational. I'm not really a Satanist, that's like worshipping a care bear. They don't exist? Get it?

[herme3]

Okay, herme3. Why don't you form an army and try and stop me? Better yet, call your congressman, pray to God. Do everything in your power to stop me. Let's see how that works out for you.

 

I just don't think it is a good idea for you to write your own letter. If you can't write something we agree with, you probably shouldn't write it. Besides, it will just seem confusing if two different letters are sent around the same time. It will look more professional if we all send one organized letter.

 

I'm writing it on my own to insure that the letter is written as perfectly as possible and so I don't have to fight against people like you.

 

If you are fighting against us, it is because you are writing something that you shouldn't. Our purpose is to point out the incorrect or misleading scientific statements made in the video. If you have anything to contribute, I think you should add it to the main letter. We aren't going to fight against you if you are mature and professional about it.

 

If you write anything in your letter that we refuse to add to the main letter, the people who receive your letter probably won't waste their time reading it. In fact, if they receive our letter right after yours, they might think both letters are from the same person and just delete it. That is why I'm concerned about you harming our reputation.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Having two letters will lessen their impact and will confuse those who decide to endorse one or the other. You complained to me when I nearly screwed it all up, and now you're doing the same.

 

Take some time to think about everything that has happened over the past few days, and reconsider.

[silkworm]

If you only want one letter, don't write that one. My letter is an inevitability. This is sorta what I do (I even do it live and in person), and I'm doing it.

 

I just refuse to fight about it, and I'm not going to have to hassle with content anymore. There is no discussion. My mind has been made up for me.

 

I'm sorry, I would have liked a community effort, but I just don't feel like fighting a community.

 

If you want to endorse my letter when it's written, please do. Everyone who supports it is entitled to.

[Dak]

the letter being written on wisci doesnt seem too bad, and it benifits from input from several people of variouse disiplines.

 

I'd both suggest and request that you attempt to address and fix whatever issues caused your desision to leave, rather than wrighting a second letter. or, if a second letter is to be written, may i suggest that you wright it against a different creationist source, so as to not duplicate effort within the scientific community.

[herme3]

Having two letters will lessen their impact and will[/i'] confuse those who decide to endorse one or the other. You complained to me when I nearly screwed it all up, and now you're doing the same.

 

I completely agree with you. It just won't make any sense for Silkworm to send his own letter. The first letter is a community effort, so Silkworm is welcomed to contribute to it. He seems to think that we are going to fight against him. I don't think any of us are going to fight against him unless he writes something that goes against our purpose.

 

I just refuse to fight about it, and I'm not going to have to hassle with content anymore.

 

What content do you think should be added that we don't already have? There is a place on the wisci page for suggestions. Although some of us might disagree with something you say, if the overall community believes that the suggestions are good, we will add them to the letter. If we refuse to add your suggestions to the letter, then it means your suggestions are not very good.

 

I'm sorry, I would have liked a community effort, but I just don't feel like fighting a community.

 

So, you want to control the community, not work with it. You need to wake up and stop acting like a king! You aren't any better than the rest of us! There are some points in the letter that I don't completely agree with, but you don't see me running away to start my own letter. I understand that I'm working with a community, and I need to think about what the majority of the community wants. Stop throwing a childish fit because everything isn't going your way. Think about the community, and realize that you probably aren't the smartest or most important person here.

 

If you want to endorse my letter when it's written, please do. Everyone who supports it is entitled to.

 

I really hope that nobody supports your letter after you abandon the letter we are already writing. We hope for our letter to be endorsed by lots of people, so it will have much more of an impact. If you just send your own letter, who is going to pay attention? Your letter will be hidden in the shadow of our letter. If you have anything good to say, I suggest you add it to our letter if you want it to be read.

 

the letter being written on wisci doesnt seem too bad, and it benifits from input from several people of variouse disiplines.

 

Exactly. Silkworm should just explain whatever is making him angry about our existing letter. If he has a good suggestion, the existing letter will be modified for him. He has already helped write some parts of the letter. I'm interested to know why Silkworm is so sure that we are going to go against his new suggestions. He must be planning to say something that he already knows is wrong or just ridiculous.

[Kyrisch]

I would just like to point out that no "rebuttal" has been made against the outrageous claim that the Big Bang could not have created ordered galaxies because it is observed every day that explosions only end in disorder. I am willing to write this part of the letter. My answer would go something like this:

 

It is true that explosions cause disorder, but since when is the universe that ordered? Say a building exploded in a vacuum, the debris would spread out arbitrarily, but there would still be clumps. And thusly, if these clumps were of large enough proportions gravity would act upon them and make them into swirled bodies with a dense core, which is exactly what is seen in the universe today.

[herme3]

I would just like to point out that no "rebuttal" has been made against the outrageous claim that the Big Bang could not have created ordered galaxies because it is observed every day that explosions only end in disorder. I am willing to write this part of the letter. My answer would go something like this:

 

It is true that explosions cause disorder' date=' but since when is the universe that ordered? Say a building exploded in a vacuum, the debris would spread out arbitrarily, but there would still be clumps. And thusly, if these clumps were of large enough proportions gravity would act upon them and make them into swirled bodies with a dense core, which is exactly what is seen in the universe today.[/quote']

 

You have a very good point. Perhaps we can add this to the letter.

[ydoaPs]

I would just like to point out that no "rebuttal" has been made against the outrageous claim that the Big Bang could not have created ordered galaxies because it is observed every day that explosions only end in disorder. I am willing to write this part of the letter. My answer would go something like this:

 

It is true that explosions cause disorder' date=' but since when is the universe that ordered? Say a building exploded in a vacuum, the debris would spread out arbitrarily, but there would still be clumps. And thusly, if these clumps were of large enough proportions gravity would act upon them and make them into swirled bodies with a dense core, which is exactly what is seen in the universe today.[/quote']

explosions DO cause order!

 

a rather poor wikipedia article about it

buy some trinitite

[Dak]

i'm pretty sure that singularity --> universe involves a rather significant increase in disorder.

[FreeThinker]

Excuse my interruption but what is this letter going to achieve? Do you think the people who made this video will really pay attention to it? Do you all think scientific truth is what they really want?

[herme3]

Excuse my interruption but what is this letter going to achieve? Do you think the people who made this video will really pay attention to it? Do you all think scientific truth is what they really want?

 

Well, I don't think we are just going to send this letter to the people who support this video. We plan on posting it on various evolutionist and creationist forums, and other places on the Internet. Even if it doesn't influence the people who make and support this video, it will raise awareness that the video isn't completely true.

[FreeThinker]

Well, I don't think we are just going to send this letter to the people who support this video. We plan on posting it on various evolutionist and creationist forums, and other places on the Internet. Even if it doesn't influence the people who make and support this video, it will raise awareness that the video isn't completely true.

 

Fair enough. Good idea

[bombus]

I am a Christian, but I also believe in proven scientific evidence. I have nothing against scientific research into Christian beliefs. If my beliefs are true, science will never be able to prove they are false. If my beliefs are false, I would like to know it and see the proof. I have yet to find scientific evidence against the existence of God. However, if such evidence does happen to exist, why would Christians be against it? Why would anyone want to practice a religion that is known to be false? It would make no sense.

 

It would be like someone telling me that there is an explosive device in my house. Yes, I'm going to get out of my house as quickly as I can. However, I will also want the police or some other experts to come and investigate. If they can prove to me that there is no explosive device, I would go back inside. Why would I waste me time standing outside for no reason? I think the same is true for religion.

 

If I used the example above, some scientists would be like the police if they never went inside to investigate, but they just came and said, "It could just be a prank. You can go back inside." Just because science can provide an alternative theory to creationism doesn't mean that creationism is false. I have been taught the Christian religion, and I will continue to practice it unless scientific proof shows that I am wasting my time. I don't want to die and wake up to see the Devil, and then hear Charles Darwin say, "Oops. Sorry everyone."

 

Don't worry, God will forgive you - thats his job!