Intelligence and Race

[blike]

Main Entry: in·tel·li·gence

1 a (1) : the ability to learn or understand or to deal with new or trying situations; also: the skilled use of reason

 

Are certain races predisposed to be more or less intelligent?

 

I think everyone [in america] notices the general correlation of race and intelligence, but most people don't discuss it openly for fear of being branded racist. A snapshot of the top 10% of students in america would probably reveal 50% Asian [including Indians], 40% White, 10% Ethnic minorities not including Asian (African American, Spanish-American, etc). A study by Bracken & colleagues in 1993 revealed that blacks score an average of 15 points below whites on IQ tests. Asians typically dominate the field when it comes to mathematics, physics, and engineering. They also account for a fair portion of the medical doctors in the united states. So my question is to what factors play into intelligence? I just finished reading a study that concluded black children raised by white families scored more closely to the white average. There are studies that show a strong correlation between the intelligence of twins. Does this suggest a hereditary basis for intelligence? I think a lot of studies that link intelligence and genetics are discounted because this inevitably leads to the conclusion that some races are inherently more intelligent than others. The idea is social taboo, and very few scientists would openly make such a claim.

[Sayonara]

As far as the above observations go, I would be reluctant to draw conclusions without first ensuring that your results totally separate effects due to intelligence, and effects due to discipline.

[T_FLeX]

I remember reading a book I think it was "Genome" or something like that. It talked about a study done with twins that showed that separated twins had a high probability of being equal in intelligence no matter what the social conditions were. It went on to say that intelligence was around 60 percent hereditary, while the other 40 percent was how hard you study, your motivation, stuff like that.

 

I pretty much agree with what the study said, but I also think the developmental years ages 0-12 are crucial in determining intelligence. I think Asians are so smart is because in most Asian families education is so important, and its not the get an education to get a good job education, it's the go to school to learn all you can education. Feel me?

 

As for African Americans and Mexicans I don't see many of them even trying to learn, they basically just go through school hoping that they will get a good job, and show no interest in the subjects. I know I am generalizing some, but I would say the majority of them are like this. This coming from someone who went to a >70 percent black school.

 

And you’re right Blike people do not talk about this, usually because African Americans feel so strongly about it. I'm always hearing them bitch about the educational system (this is in America guys don’t' know about any where else) and how they need computers and smaller class rooms. This does not work because of the attitude of blacks. Throwing money at it will not fix it, the kids have to want to learn. I don't feel that I am racist. I have a lot of black friends, and even listen to black music, but I just don't think the majority of blacks are on par with whites and Asians.

 

This is a subject I feel very strongly about because of where I live and what is happening at my school. There has been a massive influx of blacks to this college, and they are the reason Georgia will stop giving, or change the requirements of the HOPE scholarship. Way too many blacks are coming into college unprepared taking the easiest classes available and passing. And because there is so many, the classes are getting easier and easier. This is not acceptable in my opinion, blacks in my area have already lowered the bar in public schools ridiculously, and I can't stand to see them do it to college too. If you want to call me racist that's fine. I guarantee if you lived down in the dirty south you would feel the same way.

[iglak]

my personal opinion is that there are two types of evolution within a species.

 

the first being what you all know about as natural selection and mutation leading to drastic changes over a long period of time within a species, possibly creating a new species.

 

 

the second is basically the society. we can basically detect eachother's emotions and thoughts through our five senses. the parents pass their emotions (like motivation, affection, whatever) down to us as we are born and through the developement of our lives. at the same time, we are taking in the emotions of everyone around us, and a small amount of the emotions of people we never see, but are present in the community (including people that live elsewhere). every generation brings their own emotions into the mix. this "emotion pool," or whatever you want to call it, is constantly changing, usually trying to adapt to the environment better (in a sense, "evolving").

 

what we think, and what our emotions are have a huge impact on how our bodies develop (mind over matter type stuff). our brains probably have the capacity to regulate horomone, and cell flow to parts of our body. horomones (to my understanding) have a huge impact on how our bodies develop. this could, and probably does include the development of our brains themselves.

 

this is what i believe most of the variation of intelligence to be. also, most of the variation between all difference between societies, races, whatever. i believe DNA changes only account for the major changes in structure, and almost nothing else.

 

so, chinese and japanese are societies where intelligence is a good thing, and gaining knowlege quickly is an excelent thing. blacks are a society that has been ridiculed and tortured for being different for a long time, and their steryotypical society has adjusted to gain revenge and kinda cheat their way through life to get ahead of the whites. europeans are a society that thinks highly of themselves, and thus are a society that has less motivation to be intelligent, but a lot of motivation to think that they are intelligent, which is some motivation in itself.

 

so..... yeah... that's about it

 

P.S. don't take that last paragraph personally, that is just the steryotypical gist of a portion of those societies.

[YT2095]

Could it perhaps be dietary?

it`s well know that vitamin deficiencys esp at an early age plays a significant role in mental development. Foods such as Fish are often called "Brain Food" and studies have shown that such foods are indeed beneficial.

I`m sure that`s not the whole story, but it may play a part as different cultures eat different foods.

the bit that gave me that idea was when you mentioned about black children being brought up in a white home environment, maybe foods do play a part?

[atinymonkey]

:monkey eyes thread suspiciously:

 

:monkey eyes terminology suspiciously:

 

:monkey eyes comment about food in different ethnic groups suspiciously:

 

:monkey decides to leave:

[blike]

atinymonkey said in post #6 :

:monkey eyes thread suspiciously:

 

:monkey eyes terminology suspiciously:

 

:monkey eyes comment about food in different ethnic groups suspiciously:

 

:monkey decides to leave:

 

PSH. Terminology is general in this context. Don't necessarily have to assume that IQ is a reasonable indicator of intellect, because the trends reach far beyond IQ scores.

[Sayonara]

What's "PSH"?

[YT2095]

Portable Sandwich Holder.

[atinymonkey]

:Monkey scampers back in, looks shifty, bites blike's ankle and runs under the cupboard:

[Pinch Paxton]

Wasn't it once discovered that Neanderthal man had an higher intellect than Homo-erectus? Also it was discovered that some interbreeding went on between the two species. Some races have more neanderthal man than other races inherent in their genes. Therfore they are more intelligent.

 

Pincho.

[bigjnorman]

what blows my mind is how blacks make up a mere 12% of the population yet somehow manage to cause 58% of the crime. Then their civil rights leaders preach about the discriminiation they bring upon themselves implying that whites are the cause of it.

 

I think the majority of blacks are raised under the misconception that society owes them something because their ancestors were slaves. Their ignorance and lack of education in the history of world civilization fuels this misconception even more. They don't want to know that america was only one of many nations that used slavery, they don't want to know how america was hardly a major contributor to slavery in the west. They don't want to know that 90% of the slave population in the west came from black slave traders in africa selling their own people into slavery. And why should they? ignorance is bliss when the working class of america is dragging the freeloaders like a ball and chain to keep them from having something else to bitch about.

 

I think a lot can be understood by studying african society compared to the rest of the world. these guys never went through an industrial revolution, scientific revolution or any other type of social transformation that would allow them to keep up with other societies around the world

[atinymonkey]

What? I'm sorry, but what in the sweet name of the giant horned devil are you drivelling on about? Big history buff are we? Get all that from the bumper book of 'Ease US middle class guilt' did we?

 

I was under the impression the US was founded on slavery and mass genocide. It was not founded on the ideology that all men are created equal, which I feel the need to point out here, they bloody well are.

[greg1917]

:Monkey eyes thread

 

:moneky sees bigjnorman make massive generalisations and profound social comments with no basis:

 

:monkey retorts and scampers away:

[blike]

edit: disregard this former rant

[blike]

regardless, we'll all have to bite our tounges for now

 

BACK ON TOPIC YOU HEATHENS

[Skye]

I would say, that given the (few) studies on children brought up within a family of another race, the differences in IQ scores are largely due to the different environment.

 

"Wasn't it once discovered that Neanderthal man had an higher intellect than Homo-erectus? Also it was discovered that some interbreeding went on between the two species. Some races have more neanderthal man than other races inherent in their genes. Therfore they are more intelligent."

 

1) Neanderthals are an older form, perhaps subspecies, of Homo sapiens not a species in their own right. They did make better use of tools and stuff than Homo erectus.

2) It was thought possible that they interbred with the more modern forms of Homo sapiens that moved into Europe

3) Genetic studies have found no links however. The current idea is that the modern Homo sapiens arose in Africa and dispersed throughout the world with little interbreeding with older forms they displaced.

4) Interbreeding with Neanderthals wouldn't have made the modern Homo sapiens smarter, they were y'know...Neanderthals.

[Glider]

blike said in post #1 :

Are certain races predisposed to be more or less intelligent?

 

I think everyone [in america] notices the general correlation of race and intelligence, but most people don't discuss it openly for fear of being branded racist.

 

I suspect this has much to do with the fact that whilst everyone notices the correlation, substantially fewer understand that you cannot infer causation from a correlation. Whilst there may be a correlation between race and intelligence, it cannot be said that race causes (the differences in) intelligence. There is also a correlation between socioeconomic status (SES) and intelligence. We cannot conclude that money causes intelligence.

 

If you overlay the socioeconomic and race demographics, you may also notice a correlation between race and socioeconomic status and though you could not conclude that money causes race, or indeed (perhaps to a less certain extent), the other way around, it does highlight a larger factor. In light of the overall correlation between SES and intelligence (where higher SES is related to better performance on tests of IQ), combined with the relationship between race and SES (where African American is associated with lower SES), it could be argued that SES is the determining factor, and race is simply a covariate.

 

In any event, the problem is confounded by (among other things) the fact that the best measures of IQ are still comparitively blunt. For example, many items in IQ tests, still test learning and memory, rather than intelligence. Therefore, if you have never been exposed to the relevent information, you will score 0 on those items, regardless of how intelligent you are. If we could generate a true test of intellectual potential, I wonder what the results would be then?

[YT2095]

I`ll stick with my dietary idea, it`s much safer and provable eitherway

 

atinymonkey said "I was under the impression the US was founded on slavery and mass genocide. It was not founded on the ideology that all men are created equal"

 

No, appart from the slavery bit, that`s the early England yer describing there, we were utter nasty mofos back then

[Sayonara]

I think the discussion as to the origins of the US belong to a different thread (which hopefully someone will start, because I'm very interested to hear about all that genocide the evil British commited while the US was being formed, and also why the slave triangle every schoolchild is taught about is lies).

[Glider]

YT2095 said in post #19 :

I`ll stick with my dietary idea, it`s much safer ...

 

In what sense is it 'safer'?

 

... and provable eitherway

 

If it were provable, given the number of people involved in searching for factors influencing intelligence (and how long they have spent doing it), I think it would probably have been proven (either way) by now. As it stands, there is no relationship between type of diet (as long as it's adequate) and IQ.

 

Inadequate diets can impair development, but this is universal, not race-related, although geography is involved. For example, there are areas in India where the soil has severely depleted levels of iodine (e.g. the Kashmir valley where the effects of iodine deficiency are endemic). An iodine impoverished diet results in a number of Iodine Deficiency Disorders (IDD), beginning with goitre (there is a high prevalence of goitre in those regions affected), and severe mental retardation (cretinism), as a result of the severe teratogenic effects of iodine deficiency on the developing brain.

[YT2095]

safer in the sense that that it doesn`t implicate RACE per se, but more of a neutral element.

 

Iodine, Zinc, certain B vitamins and a plethora of other trace elements etc. have indeed been responsible for a whole host of problems in mankind (even on occasion an excess of a certain element). new things are being discovered ALL the time with regards to dietary influences, I considered ita possibility that this MAYBE such an instance. we know that Rice has certain anti carcinogenic properties, and the Japanesse have one one of the lowest rates of cancer per capita.... it MAYBE unrellated sure, but it`s sure interesting, and certainly when it pitted against skin color and upbringing

[T_FLeX]

Sayonara³ said in post #20 :

.............and also why the slave triangle every schoolchild is taught about is lies).

 

 

The same reason they are taught creationism is equally viable as evolution, they can't handle the truth.

[Sayonara]

Umm... I meant in the respect that YT inferred the USA had slavery and the UK did not.

[alt_f13]

T_FLeX said in post #3 :

I remember reading a book I think it was "Genome" or something like that. It talked about a study done with twins that showed that separated twins had a high probability of being equal in intelligence no matter what the social conditions were. It went on to say that intelligence was around 60 percent hereditary, while the other 40 percent was how hard you study, your motivation, stuff like that.

 

I pretty much agree with what the study said, but I also think the developmental years ages 0-12 are crucial in determining intelligence. I think Asians are so smart is because in most Asian families education is so important, and its not the get an education to get a good job education, it's the go to school to learn all you can education. Feel me?

 

As for African Americans and Mexicans I don't see many of them even trying to learn, they basically just go through school hoping that they will get a good job, and show no interest in the subjects. I know I am generalizing some, but I would say the majority of them are like this. This coming from someone who went to a >70 percent black school.

 

And you’re right Blike people do not talk about this, usually because African Americans feel so strongly about it. I'm always hearing them bitch about the educational system (this is in America guys don’t' know about any where else) and how they need computers and smaller class rooms. This does not work because of the attitude of blacks. Throwing money at it will not fix it, the kids have to want to learn. I don't feel that I am racist. I have a lot of black friends, and even listen to black music, but I just don't think the majority of blacks are on par with whites and Asians.

 

This is a subject I feel very strongly about because of where I live and what is happening at my school. There has been a massive influx of blacks to this college, and they are the reason Georgia will stop giving, or change the requirements of the HOPE scholarship. Way too many blacks are coming into college unprepared taking the easiest classes available and passing. And because there is so many, the classes are getting easier and easier. This is not acceptable in my opinion, blacks in my area have already lowered the bar in public schools ridiculously, and I can't stand to see them do it to college too. If you want to call me racist that's fine. I guarantee if you lived down in the dirty south you would feel the same way.

 

 

 

Wow.  You have no idea how many violent thoughts came to mind whilst reading your thread.  I have abstained from writing them for fear of bannishment from the forum, but believe me, you should be happy you are not standing beside me at this very moment.

 

First off, much of this has to do with wealth, secondly with culture and zero with race.

 

 

 

Asians in the US are generally rich.  Latinos and blacks are generally on the poor side.  Culture follows wealth, education follows the culture that cherishes it. 

 

 

 

Not only do many Asian communities push their youth so much it leads to some of the highest suicide rates on the planet, many of the Asians who move to North America are probably among the wealthiest families on the continent.  Or at least of the families we take notice of.

 

 

 

Besides, I know so many idiots who are going to University and College...  they are not intelligent at all, merely motivated. (Especially those politically motivated people who cannot see past the ends of their noses and have the most selective senses.  Intelligent or not, their lack of insight into world and social dynamics appalls me, and yet they are motivated enough to reach high in the ranks of politically powered people.)

 

 

 

Stop generalizing about "blacks" and "they."

 

 

 

Friggin white people. Always tryin' to keep the black man down.