Should I trust this guy?

[richardrli]

Hi guys, I'm new to the forum. Recently some Muslim students in my high school started approaching me and asked me if I wanted to convert to their religion. I hesitated, they provided me with books by the author Harun Yahya that goes all out to disprove evolution and support Creationism. The books have tons and tons of 'facts' and pictures depicting various life organisms and how the Evolution could never work. They seemed surprisingly realistic to me, but does that author have a hidden agenda? I'm just asking you guys for your insights.

[CurvKyle]

they are full of it, these 'fact' filled books are nothing more then propaganda used to trick and convert you to their beliefs.

[TimbaLanD]

Follow your instinct but be careful of being brain washed. Why would anyone care what you believe in? Follow your instincts, it always works for me.

[YT2095]

well there no harm in reading these books and obtaining more data, but read with an Objective eye/mindset.

Nothing learned is ever a waste, so if you`re curious about it, then read them

 

as for trusting him??? did you question his Motive(s) yet?

[silkworm]

Muslims, eh? What state are you in?

 

If you don't mind, I'd like to know the name of the book(s) and author(s) and any affiliation(s) involved. I have Harun Yahya already, but anyone else?

[richardrli]

Hey Silkworm, unfortunately I don't live in the US. I'm from Sydney, Australia. The book is 'The Truth Of The Life Of This World' by Harun Yahya, if you've read it what do you think of it?

[bascule]

The main Harun Yahya thingy I've checked out is Darwinism Refuted, where I discovered the same old arguments you get from the creationist/ID crowd based on the same old logical fallacies (e.g. appeal to incredulity)

[Prime-Evil]

There are many good religions and Islam is only one of them.

As with most things in life, it is best to learn to be moderate.

To do this it is best to listen to and observe the moderate.

Religion is for the most part just a cultural thing anyhow.

Ignore the zealots. Better to talk a walk in the woods.

 

Honour thy Mother and thy Father. Consider the End. Fear the Land.

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[kenshin]

hello richardrli,

 

I would suggest that don't trust him or do whatever they say.Think about it for some time from a neutral point of view.As CurvKyle said " these 'fact' filled books are nothing more then propaganda used to trick and convert you to their beliefs." and I also agree with TimbaLanD that "Why would anyone care what you believe in?".Why are they trying so desperately to make you believe in something if it's the truth?Truth needs no one as its advocate,its powerful enough to propagate on its own.So,for the time being,don't follow them and if later you feel like they were right,then you can always switch your religion.

 

Moreover,are they approaching everyone or just you and why?I think this much info will help us to help you better.

 

Bottom line is,in my opinion,you should keep a safe distance and say no for the time being.Observe them carefully,see what they actually want and you can always switch later.

[swansont]

You wouldn't go to a scientist to earn about religion. Do you think a religious leader is the person to teach you about science?

 

We've got Liars for Jesus, and now, Liars for Allah. I don't know what possesses folks to think that since their religion is the one truth, that they should attempt to convert people by deceiving them. It's not like it's "choose one, and only one" anyway. Plenty of people are able to reconcile their religous belief with science.

[alice]

I agree with all of the above. They are all right. It doesn't matter what religion you are, anyway. Who cares? It doesn't matter to us. And if you believe that Allah is the God for you...then so be it. Just be sure to believe in the truth.

[ydoaPs]

Recently some Muslim students in my high school started approaching me and asked me if I wanted to convert to their religion.

...

does that author have a hidden agenda?

you answered yourself

[alice]

I didn't know Muslims concerned themselves with the evolution vs. creation stuff.

[ydoaPs]

I didn't know Muslims concerned themselves with the evolution vs. creation stuff.

just as much, if not more than, the christians. they're just not a s vocal in our part of the world. surf about online, though, and you'll see.

[YT2095]

you answered yourself

 

evidently Not.

and so until he reads them with an Objective eye, he can`t possibly Hope to establish this for himself.

then and ONLY then, when "armed" with information can he make his deductions and then choice.

 

anything outside of this would merely be anecdotal, subjectively biased opinion worth little more in Scientific value than the electrons used to produce these words on screen.

[Prime-Evil]

evidently Not. and so until he reads them with an Objective eye, he can`t possibly Hope to establish this for himself. then and ONLY then, when "armed" with information can he make his deductions and then choice. anything outside of this would merely be anecdotal, subjectively biased opinion worth little more in Scientific value than the electrons used to produce these words on screen.

I would agree that the thing does not neccessarily speak for itself. You could argue that all religions have hidden agendas almost by definition, but even this assertion requires a leap into absurdity. For that matter, even pure science requires some abstract leaps of faith. Otherwise we would never get anywhere, or go insane, or as in my case, both.

.

[Sashatheman]

Hey Silkworm, unfortunately I don't live in the US. I'm from Sydney, Australia. The book is 'The Truth Of The Life Of This World' by Harun Yahya, if you've read it what do you think of it?

hey i am from Sydney Australia. Just mention Cronulla Riots and they should leave you alone. nah jk

 

 

give us some examples that really made you question evolution from the book, and i am sure alot of people on this forum will show yuo why the author is wrong, in a scientific way.

[Prime-Evil]

evidently Not. and so until he reads them with an Objective eye, he can`t possibly Hope to establish this for himself. then and ONLY then, when "armed" with information can he make his deductions and then choice. anything outside of this would merely be anecdotal, subjectively biased opinion worth little more in Scientific value than the electrons used to produce these words on screen.

I would agree that the thing does not neccessarily speak for itself. You could argue that all religions have hidden agendas almost by definition, but even this assertion requires a leap into absurdity. For that matter, even pure science requires some abstract leaps of faith. Otherwise we would never get anywhere, or go insane, or as in my case, both.

.

One of the things that turns me off many religious zealots is what they say about nature. I can understand being against worshipping snakes and sacrificing virgin toads and stuff, but what's wrong with a simple walk in the woods. Some zealots just need to get out more.

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p.s. My apologies to any traditional snake and toad cultures I may be ignorant of.

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[YT2095]

I agree that Science does occasionaly require imagination, like "what if?" or "How about I try some THIS instead?" type of thinking, but "leaps of Faith"?

I can`t envision one instance where this may be the case in Pure Science as you stated.

seriously, I really can`t think of Any.

 

as for these books, can you Honestly think of any Better Way to make up you mind about it, without actualy Reading it for yourself?

[Prime-Evil]

I agree that Science does occasionaly require imagination' date=' like "what if?" or "How about I try some THIS instead?" type of thinking, but "leaps of Faith"?

I can`t envision one instance where this may be the case in Pure Science as you stated.

seriously, I really can`t think of Any.

 

as for these books, can you Honestly think of any Better Way to make up you mind about it, without actualy Reading it for yourself?[/quote']No perhaps not pure science. I am in applied science so I can't speak for pure science. I am not even sure what it is. But don't we always have to state our assumptions, or put our faith in others work based on some balance of probabilities or sense of priorities. Is there ever any absolute certainty, or does everything only have to be good enough for the girls we go out with?

 

I admit that is a very different thing than blind religious faith, but everything has its limits. I am not suggesting we need more religion in our science. I think we already have to much. Neither am I suggesting that we should have less science and rational thinking in our lives and society. Surely we don't have enough. I am only suggesting that we will always need a little something beyond science, and of course it should be as rich and diverse as is our nature. I think if we ever lost a sense of Nature we would realy be adrift. That perhaps is as much reason as any other to protect the biomass levels and biodiversity of our ecosystem, so that it will always be beyond our understanding. So that it will always have the potential and complexity to be more than just biomass levels, and biodiversity, and ecosystems. Of course there is complexity at all levels of abstraction and scales or time and space in nature, but forests and wetlands and such natural habitats are at a scale for which our human senses are best adapted. Or perhaps it is just a matter of bandwidth.

 

"O wonder!

How many goodly creatures are there here!

How beautious mankind is!

O brave new world,

That has such people in't!"

 

- Shakespeare, The Tempest

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[PhDP]

I didn't know Muslims concerned themselves with the evolution vs. creation stuff.

 

Liza Gross (PLOS);

 

And in a 2005 survey measuring the proportion of adults who accept evolution in 34 European countries and Japan, the United States ranked 33rd, just above Turkey. No other country has so many people who are absolutely committed to rejecting the concept of evolution, Miller says. “We are truly out on a limb by ourselves.”

[timo]

Erm ... Phil? How is your quote a response to what Alice said?

[insane_alien]

turkey is a muslim country.

[timo]

So the message is: "There is a muslim country in which people show less belief in evolution than in the us?"

[insane_alien]

i think so.