Synthetic particles or not?

[sunspot]

The question I would like to pose is, how does one know if what was/is produced in particle accelerators is natural or artificial? Just because we can make it in the lab does not mean it is natural. With particle accelerators we are adding a lot of energy, magnetic force and shattering natural things into fragments that don't last. How do we know we are not producing both natural and/or artificial things?

 

For example, we can make polyethelene in the lab but it does not occur in nature. If we assume it is natural, than one can extrapolate fantasy stuff that will logically follow. For example, If we assume natural polyethylene, than maybe the oil deposits formed from the polymerization of ethylene. This follows logically but is a deduction based on an unnatural material, i.e., cart before the horse. Or I can take an basket of apples and smash them with Gallagher's sledge-o-matic and then collect the pieces and come up with the theory that the basic building blocks of apples are juice, sludge and peel fragments none of which actually make up a ripe apple in their fragmented guise.

[the tree]

The question I would like to pose is, how does one know if what was/is produced in particle accelerators is natural or artificial?

We know that it has been created because it wasn't there before.

For example' date=' we can make polyethelene in the lab but it does not occur in nature.[/quote']I'd wage that somewhere in the universe, it does.

[insane_alien]

you cannot tell the difference between them all elementary particles of the same type are identical.

[swansont]

Energy correlates to temperature, so particles/reactions in accelerators would be found in stellar reactions and, at higher energies, in the very early universe.

[sunspot]

Materials in nature are not only sensitive to temperature but also pressure. The pressure may not be something we can control or even simulate in the lab.

[Severian]

First of all, there is nothing 'unnatural' about the particles made in particle colliders. They all exist in the everyday world - we just don't see them very often. For example, electrons have mass because of the Higgs mechanism (we think), and mass is a fundamental property of the electron. So although we don't see Higgs bosons in our cornflakes, they are there - they just don't live long enough for us to see them.

 

Anyway, the point is not to see what particles exist in everyday matter, but to investigate the fundamental nature of the forces. The intent is that if we understand what makes them work we will be able to better explain the everyday world.

[Royston]

Remember Sunspot, we're not talking molecules here, that can be synthesized, new elements are being found in particle accelerators. Although they are prone to decay into other elements there is nothing unatural about an element. It's just particle accelerators create the conditions in which they can be found.

[swansont]

Materials in nature are not only sensitive to temperature but also pressure. The pressure may not be something we can control or even simulate in the lab.

 

Pressure is a macroscopic measure that relates to how often the collisions occur. It doesn't play a part in the individual reactions.

[sunspot]

I am playing the devil's advocate to learn. Look at this scenario. If we heat iron to 10K celsium, the iron will become a highly ionized vapor, with questionable magnetic properties sinces its magnetic electron states will no longer be the same. It will be hard to hold all the outer electrons never mind keep them in separate D-oribitals for magnetism. If we take the iron and pressurize it in the center of the earth, we will get solid state or metallic iron, since the melting point of solids increase with pressure. The crowded pressurized atoms create a different affect allowing substantial magnetism that we observed. In the center of star, or even in the center of the BB, the pressure, by keeping everything close could result in different sub-particle properties and distributions.

[Royston]

What does that have to do with particles being synthetic ? Despite the fact they're not. Why is there any need to play devils advocate ?

 

Question. Are particles found in particle accelerators synthetic ?

 

Answer: No

 

It's really that simple.

[bascule]

The question I would like to pose is, how does one know if what was/is produced in particle accelerators is natural or artificial?

 

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