foreign oppinions of the US

[CPL.Luke]

does anyone have first hand accounts of what people outside the US think of the US, (general perception, its policies etc.)? ie, oppinions of yourself, freinds, or family, not what you hear on the news.

 

I'm kind of curious because of a book I recently read and a general belief that the current foreign policy of the US may be alienating other nations.

 

 

I hope this doesn't turn into a debate to soon, as I am really interested in the starting oppinion, and even in the unlikely event that anyone could be convinced that their oppinion is wrong then there are still millions of other persons who have the same oppinion as they do.

[ecoli]

I think the prevailing opinion, even in friendly nations, that American's are fat, self-absorbed and un-intelligent. But, let's face it, most of us are...

[Jim]

I think the prevailing opinion, even in friendly nations, that American's are fat, self-absorbed and un-intelligent. But, let's face it, most of us are...

 

The rest of the world is catching up with America's obesity problem.

 

Obesity is increasing globally .. .. There are over 300 million obese adults, according to the World Health Organization and 1.1 billion overweight people worldwide. Being underweight used to be much more common worldwide than obesity. Now the two conditions co-exist, with half of the world's population underweight and the other half overweight.

 

The US is more self-absorbed than, say, Switzerland, because we can be.

 

The only study I could find re global intelligence with a quick Google was this

 

Lynn and Vanhanen prove that the widespread though rarely stated assumption of economists and political scientists—that all peoples and nations have the same average IQ—is wildly wrong. Their evidence documents substantial national differences in average intelligence. The highest average IQs are found among the Oriental countries of North East Asia (average IQ = 104), followed by the European nations (average IQ = 98), and the mainly White populations of North America and Australasia (average IQ = 98). Further behind are the countries of South and Southwest Asia, from the Middle East through Turkey to India and Malaysia (average IQ = 87), as are the countries of South East Asia and the Pacific Islands (average IQ = 86), and Latin America and the Caribbean (IQ = 85). Lowest are the countries of Africa (average IQ = 70).

 

Not having researched this issue at all, I make no guarantees for this kind of study but I certainly did not see any immediate evidence that Americans are less intelligent than Europeans.

[insane_alien]

ecoli sums it up nicely

[Pangloss]

I'm curious how I'd be received these days, looking like the typical American as I do (much as ecoli described!).

 

I visited Europe at a young age, and really enjoyed the experience. I'd love to go back, but I wonder if I would be assaulted/chastised/etc. I'm sure that's mostly irrational on my part, though. I've met some nice folks here, and also my parents have been over to Britain recently, and we had a British guest here at the house at Christmas two years ago. (She was opposed to the Iraq war so she and I had some interesting conversations on the subject, but it was all amicable enough in the end.)

[Apeofman]

I'm curious how I'd be received these days' date=' looking like the typical American as I do (much as ecoli described!).

[/quote']

Hi Pangloss,

You'd be welcome in England. Any percieved Anti-Americanism is really reserved for George Bush specifically, and American Foreign Policy generally.

 

If you do come over, drop in for coffee.

[Dak]

Not my personal oppinions, just reporting. dont shoot the messenger

 

although, if you look at your own media -- which, remember, makes up the majority of your 'public face' to the world (foreighn media accounting for the majority of what's left) -- it's not too hard to deduce foreighn oppinion.

 

Not many people think of americans in all of the following ways, or believe the following to the extent that I describe... but this is sort of an amalgamated steryotypical view of someone who believes in american steryotypes (if that makes sence?)

 

Ok, so... arrogant and self-righteouse spring to mind. you know the guys from the films, who raise the american flag in front of their house every morning and almost cry whilst singing the national anthem? "aih love america, it's the best gawd damn country on gawds earth". etc etc. well, in britain, i'm pretty sure that alot of people think that americans are all, to a greter or lesser extent, derangedly zelotic patriots. the fact that you seem to have the need to over-right anything that could be concidered a foreighn achievement and make it an american achievement doesnt help: everything from changing french-fries to freedom fries, to re-filming british comody such as absolutely fabulouse and the office with american actors rather than just screening the british versions, or -- and excellent example -- the fact that a film was made about the cracking of the german code in WWII, and the british troops were replaced in the film by american troops.

 

also fundamentally stupid. 'guns dont kill people, people kill people. the fact that most of these people-who-kill-people have guns is a sheer coincidence.' 'canada is an american state.' 'what other countries?' etc are all concidered by many to be representative of the average american intelect and education level.

 

brain-washed. it's assumed by many that you all believe everything in hollywood movies, and that you all repeat, like a mantra, 'democracy is good. capitalism is good. comunism is bad and the opposite of democrasy.' etc. Your view of history (and also current affairs) is also seen as incorrect and re-ritten to paint america in a good light.

 

exessively religiouse. i dont think i need to say more.

 

hypocritical. You mourne the loss of innocent lives in september the 11th, and then retaliate in a manner that involves the bombing of several civillian targets, including hospitals, in a country that wasn't actually responsable for sep. 11. you invade other countries, shatter their cities, infrastructure and society and leave them without a functioning political system, all in the name of democracy, and then windge about 'having' to 'police' the world. you harp on about freedom of speach, and also try to silence the teaching of evolution or critisism of the american way, capitalism etc. your constitution, which you all seem to claim to follow like a bible, guarantees people equality, and yet america is percieved as immensly inherently racist, and as the ritch minority pissing on the majority.

 

your army is seen as a bunch of trigger-happy retards who can't tell friend from foe

 

oh, and every single one of you is fat.

 

 

those are the main ones. I'd like to again point out that these aren't my views, and also that quite a few people don't view america badly atall. Also, as Apeofman said, people who express these views seem to express them towards america as a whole, rather than individual americans, who are generally tolerated unless they loudly 'do something american'.

 

Unfortunately, there are a few (loud) americans who seem to live up to these sterotypes, with one of them being seen as many as managing to have gotten himself elected el presidento, and they, combined with hollywood, tend to enforce peoples beliefes about america.

 

Next time i see something on the internet that demonstrates any of these steryotypes, i'll post it up for you if you want.

[Bettina]

Not my personal oppinions, just reporting. dont shoot the messenger

 

HOW DARE YOU!!!!!. Your a SICKO. I am not FAT.

 

Seriously DAK, I echo some of those statements and I wonder what the world would be like if the USA stopped being the policeman. Just bring home every soldier and piece of equipment and scrap everything except what we need to defend our homeland, stop giving billions of dollars to countries that hate us, and just mind our own business.

 

I think China and Russia are like that and I wondered what kind of world it would be. Let the UN handle Al-Quida like its supposed to and we will just contribute an equal amount of whatever is needed.

 

Bee

[Dak]

Ooh you evil so-and-so you, I actually fell for that; for a minitue I was all like "aww nerts, i've managed to offend someone"

 

(wont respond to your other comments as OP asked for no debating)

[ecoli]

As for US foreign policy, I imagine there is some hypocrasy on the part of the rest of the world. They resent our self-appointed role as the global police-man, but I wonder how many people would detest us for neglecting the rest of the world if we decided to stop.

 

There are places, especially in Latin america, who, I'm sure, detest us for our foriegn economic policy. Free trade zones sanctioned by us are living hells for the people who work there... yet who are so closely tied to them because they have so few options... thoughts on that?

[Jim]

Not my personal oppinions' date=' just reporting. dont shoot the messenger

 

although, if you look at your own media -- which, remember, makes up the majority of your 'public face' to the world (foreighn media accounting for the majority of what's left) -- it's not too hard to deduce foreighn oppinion.

 

Not many people think of americans in all of the following ways, or believe the following to the extent that I describe... but this is sort of an amalgamated steryotypical view of someone who believes in american steryotypes (if that makes sence?)

 

Ok, so... arrogant and self-righteouse spring to mind. you know the guys from the films, who raise the american flag in front of their house every morning and almost cry whilst singing the national anthem? "aih love america, it's the best gawd damn country on gawds earth". etc etc. well, in britain, i'm pretty sure that a[u']lot[/u] of people think that americans are all, to a greter or lesser extent, derangedly zelotic patriots. the fact that you seem to have the need to over-right anything that could be concidered a foreighn achievement and make it an american achievement doesnt help: everything from changing french-fries to freedom fries, to re-filming british comody such as absolutely fabulouse and the office with american actors rather than just screening the british versions, or -- and excellent example -- the fact that a film was made about the cracking of the german code in WWII, and the british troops were replaced in the film by american troops.

 

also fundamentally stupid. 'guns dont kill people, people kill people. the fact that most of these people-who-kill-people have guns is a sheer coincidence.' 'canada is an american state.' 'what other countries?' etc are all concidered by many to be representative of the average american intelect and education level.

 

brain-washed. it's assumed by many that you all believe everything in hollywood movies, and that you all repeat, like a mantra, 'democracy is good. capitalism is good. comunism is bad and the opposite of democrasy.' etc. Your view of history (and also current affairs) is also seen as incorrect and re-ritten to paint america in a good light.

 

exessively religiouse. i dont think i need to say more.

 

hypocritical. You mourne the loss of innocent lives in september the 11th, and then retaliate in a manner that involves the bombing of several civillian targets, including hospitals, in a country that wasn't actually responsable for sep. 11. you invade other countries, shatter their cities, infrastructure and society and leave them without a functioning political system, all in the name of democracy, and then windge about 'having' to 'police' the world. you harp on about freedom of speach, and also try to silence the teaching of evolution or critisism of the american way, capitalism etc. your constitution, which you all seem to claim to follow like a bible, guarantees people equality, and yet america is percieved as immensly inherently racist, and as the ritch minority pissing on the majority.

 

your army is seen as a bunch of trigger-happy retards who can't tell friend from foe

 

oh, and every single one of you is fat.

 

 

those are the main ones. I'd like to again point out that these aren't my views, and also that quite a few people don't view america badly atall. Also, as Apeofman said, people who express these views seem to express them towards america as a whole, rather than individual americans, who are generally tolerated unless they loudly 'do something american'.

 

Unfortunately, there are a few (loud) americans who seem to live up to these sterotypes, with one of them being seen as many as managing to have gotten himself elected el presidento, and they, combined with hollywood, tend to enforce peoples beliefes about america.

 

Next time i see something on the internet that demonstrates any of these steryotypes, i'll post it up for you if you want.

 

 

 

I'm not sure what to make of this. Your caveat at the end provides hope that most do not share these simple and gross views of America.

 

If these stereotypes are generally held, it would say far more about the intellectual level of your country than it would mine. I cannot think of a single commonly held inaccurate stereotype of this kind that is held in this country regarding the UK.

 

Please do not shoot the messenger or be offended for me saying so.

[Jim]

As for US foreign policy' date=' I imagine there is some hypocrasy on the part of the rest of the world. They resent our self-appointed role as the global police-man, but I wonder how many people would detest us for neglecting the rest of the world if we decided to stop.

 

There are places, especially in Latin america, who, I'm sure, detest us for our foriegn economic policy. Free trade zones sanctioned by us are living hells for the people who work there... yet who are so closely tied to them because they have so few options... thoughts on that?[/quote']

 

Yes, the word hypocrisy leaps to my mind as well. The United States could have isolated itself for many years to the great detriment of the world. The UK drew no great censure for fighting Argentina over the Falkland islands.

 

Rather than arrogance, at least with American elites, there is more of a feigned self-loathing. Of course, this is really another way for American elites to prove they are superior to the masses.

 

The weakest intellectual trait of Americans, in my view, is its herd nature. When Presidential approval ratings are high, nary a word of criticism is heard when criticism might actually matter. I remember George McGovern on the eve of the Iraq war trying to get a negative word in edgewise on MSNBC and they simply did not want to hear it. McGovern is a legitimate WWII hero but was too principled to use this against Nixon but the MSM didn't want to hear his view when it counted. Now that it is popular, any silly excuse is enough to blast the president. Headlines are consistently misleading all in one direction.

 

Herd reactions make me nervous but I think this is a more human than American trait.

 

So much for self-criticism... back to blasting the world's view. The supposed outrage of the world for us taking Saddam out of power is BS. These are crocodile tears - no one laments his passing. Thousands died before the war from brutal tyranny and now thousands die but at least there is a chance of freedom and the violence can end whenever those sponsoring it are caged.

 

Why would someone in France, for example, care if the US and Britain spent its blood and capital to remove this tyrant? I don't buy it for a second.

[Royston]

Back to the OP...foreign opinion of the US, pretty poor I'm afraid. I work for an American company, with multi-nationals. The concesus is pretty universal, self interested patriotic fatties. Obviously this is complete over generalization, but from my own experience (talking to others) this is how America comes across. In fact there is a woman in my team who loves America, she's hideously obese, so likes visting the states, because she feels she 'fits in'...no joke.

 

When I was in Vegas, my ex went on stage with Penn and Teller. They asked where she came from...'Britain, what did you do for us...oh, The Beatles' it was a joke, but it pretty much sums up the attitude that America seems to have on the world. Basically we'll do what we like, because we don't need anybody else. This is just the general view I percieve, I can't say I have opinions on an entire country, because it doesn't make sense.

[bascule]

I think the prevailing opinion, even in friendly nations, that American's are fat, self-absorbed and un-intelligent. But, let's face it, most of us are...

 

I'm glad I live in a town completely divorced from reality, where nearly everyone (including myself) is a skinny and athletic arch-liberal.

[Dak]

If these stereotypes are generally held, it would say far more about the intellectual level of your country than it would mine.

 

well, unfortunately I think britain is relatively given to low-grade racism, but, seeing america mainly as an outsider (i.e. largely through your own media), I'm not entirely surprised that these stereotypes exist. Next time you watch a film, try to pretend that you dont actually live in america, and so you can't easily seperate the bull from the bits that are grounded in reality. (not saying that hollywood-endoresement makes the stereotypes right, just that i can see where they come from)

 

I cannot think of a single commonly held inaccurate stereotype of this kind that is held in this country regarding the UK.

 

that we all have bad teeth would be analagouse to the 'fact' that all americans are fat. I can't actually think of another thats prevalent in america off the top of my head, although 'exesively rude/polite/aggressive' are general stereotypes about the british. we also share a few with you guys (arrogant, ignorant of foreighn countries, etc) , tho not, i believe, to the same extent.

 

[edit]actually, if the OP doesnt mind, i'd be interested in hearing a few more steryotypes/foreighn oppinion of the brits[/edit]

[scicop]

Hi Pangloss' date='

You'd be welcome in England. Any percieved Anti-Americanism is really reserved for George Bush specifically, and American Foreign Policy generally.

 

If you do come over, drop in for coffee.[/quote']

 

I think Apeofman has hit it on the head. Anti-americanism is not really aimed at its citizens. Europeans in general perhaps more accepting than most americans!

[Royston]

well, unfortunately I think britain is relatively given to low-grade racism, but, seeing america mainly as an outsider (i.e. largely through your own media), I'm not entirely surprised that these stereotypes exist. Next time you watch a film, try to pretend that you dont actually live in america, and so you can't easily seperate the bull from the bits that are grounded in reality. (not saying that hollywood-endoresement makes the stereotypes right, just that i can see where they come from)

 

What I find amusing is there are so many films where the bad guy is a cold calculated European. Die Hard is a prime example.

[Severian]

Dak: As a matter of interest, where are you from (I mean originally). I am guessing you are French, right?

[insane_alien]

My Anti-americanism is really aimed at george bush and about 25 of the 30 americans i know personally. i mean it doesn't look good for your country when i can only stand to be around 5 out of 30 for more than 5 minutes at a time. although all the americans on this forum are cool.

[sparkiesn]

all ur talk shows talk about freedom.. how come u don't want to give other nations their freedom to chose how to live.. and to rule themselves.. !!!!!

ur govenment think they own the world.. but the people themselves.. as any human beings.. they r not all fat..

[Jim]

all ur talk shows talk about freedom.. how come u don't want to give other nations their freedom to chose how to live.. and to rule themselves.. !!!!!

ur govenment think they own the world.. but the people themselves.. as any human beings.. they r not all fat..

 

Sorry for the digression from the OP but it's inevitable in this kind of thread. It's like saying, "are American Southerners still perceived in the North as racist," without allowing the Southerners in the group to say whether the stereotype is fair. This kind of artificial barrier is not going to hold. Sorry.

 

My point is illustrated by this post. If Americans held this kind of gross simplistic view about other countries, we'd be accused of being self-absorbed and simple-minded. It is the duty of Americans to not accept simple characterizations of other countries and it is the duties of those in other countries to do the same. We cannot allow our foreign policy, for example, to be influenced by lazy perceptions formed by Bruce Willis movies.

[Jim]

Back to the OP...foreign opinion of the US' date=' pretty poor I'm afraid. I work for an American company, with multi-nationals. The concesus is pretty universal, self interested patriotic fatties. Obviously this is complete over generalization, but from my own experience (talking to others) this is how America comes across. In fact there is a woman in my team who loves America, she's hideously obese, so likes visting the states, because she feels she 'fits in'...no joke.

 

When I was in Vegas, my ex went on stage with Penn and Teller. They asked where she came from...'Britain, what did you do for us...oh, The Beatles' it was a joke, but [b']it pretty much sums up the attitude that America seems to have on the world. [/b]Basically we'll do what we like, because we don't need anybody else. This is just the general view I percieve, I can't say I have opinions on an entire country, because it doesn't make sense.

 

Heh, see. You couldn't keep to the OP either.

 

What I find amusing is there are so many films where the bad guy is a cold calculated European. Die Hard is a prime example.

 

Prime and fairly isolated. Villains in movies go in and out of style and I do not think cold Europeans are over represented.

[Jim]

well, unfortunately I think britain is relatively given to low-grade racism, but, seeing america mainly as an outsider (i.e. largely through your own media), I'm not entirely surprised that these stereotypes exist. Next time you watch a film, try to pretend that you dont actually live in america, and so you can't easily seperate the bull from the bits that are grounded in reality. (not saying that hollywood-endoresement makes the stereotypes right, just that i can see where they come from)

 

I suppose if we are judged by Rambo movies, we're in trouble although even these movies had their origin - the abysmal treatment by the left and the MSM of our own Vietnam veterans. I don't see where you get the "fat" idea from our movies. The image presented is thinner than the reality in any developed country.

 

I can't think of a single person on the floor of my office building who is obese. I already cited the World Health Organization statement that obesity is now a global problem. My guess is that many in the rest of the world want to believe Americans are obese because obesity is the last great acceptable prejudice. You would have to tell me the source of this irrational characterization.

 

 

 

that we all have bad teeth would be analagouse to the 'fact' that all americans are fat. I can't actually think of another thats prevalent in america off the top of my head, although 'exesively rude/polite/aggressive' are general stereotypes about the british. we also share a few with you guys (arrogant, ignorant of foreighn countries, etc) , tho not, i believe, to the same extent.

 

[edit]actually, if the OP doesnt mind, i'd be interested in hearing a few more steryotypes/foreighn oppinion of the brits[/edit]

 

I hadn't even heard that stereotype until I saw Austin Powers and I really assumed it was a slam on the 60s more than the brits. Overall, I think we have a very favorable image of the Brits and I certainly hadn't focused on their girth.

 

Now that I think about it, from the BBC programs I watch, my stereotype may be that Brits are somewhat restrained in showing public emotion but are also incredibly facile with the language. Maybe this stereotype flows from watching a few House of Commons debate. You've got to love a culture who's leaders say things like, "I refer the right honorable gentleman to the answer I gave a few moments ago." We could listen to you guys for hours.

[PhDP]

does anyone have first hand accounts of what people outside the US think of the US, (general perception, its policies etc.)? ie, oppinions of yourself, freinds, or family, not what you hear on the news.

 

From my experience, the perception of the US has gone from good (Clinton era) to bad (Bush era) to very bad, mainly because of Iraq. Bush has failed miserably to exploit the sympathy and support he had after 9/11.

 

When the US will ratify Kyoto and get the republicans out of the White House (and, hopefully, also the congress), things will probably get better. But Bush is the incarnation of pretty much anything hated about the United-States; he doesn't care much about the environment, he's attacking a country for WMD that doesn't exist, and his manichean rhetoric is widely ridiculed, how could the relation with the US and the rest of the world get better with him in office ?

[Pangloss]

Wow. Posts like the above really make me cringe. Not because I'm an American, but because that kind of unsupported, ill-grounded "experience" is so prevalent in the world today.

 

I didn't agree with the president about Iraq, and I thought we should have signed Kyoto, but not because I harbor any illusions about either. I thought they were bad tactical/realpolitik moves because of opinions like the above.

 

- The idea that everything was hunkey-dorey under Clinton, it's just that evil Bush guy that screwed everything up; everything that's wrong with the world today is his fault... somehow...

- The idea that ridiculing Bush because of his speech patterns constitutes a valid and logical debate

- Bush represents everything hated about Americans (Democrats can't possibly represent those hated positions! Ever!)

 

It just boggles the mind sometimes how people can associate themselves with logic and reason and science and still take illogical, poorly-reasons, politically correct positions like that, never challenge them, never seek to question them, and just run right along with whatever the herd happens to be doing today. Moo.

 

Nothing about you personally, Phil, it's the trends I'm questioning here, not the messenger specifically. For all I know you were being sarcastic or overly brief in your post. (shrug)