ultralord910 Posted May 20, 2006 Posted May 20, 2006 I have gotten a science project where I am supposed to create a life form that lives on a certain star. I have gotten the white dwarf. I did some research and found out that the star emits a lot of heat. I am having problems creating the life form. Since there is no air or gravity in outer space how will my creature move on the star? Since the star emits a lot of heat what skin, coating, or special features should my creature have to survive from the heat? Lastly is there a way for my creature to get energy from the heat released by the star? Your help is greatly appreciated.
Dr. Dalek Posted May 20, 2006 Posted May 20, 2006 I have gotten a science project where I am supposed to create a life form that lives on a certain star. I have gotten the white dwarf. I did some research and found out that the star emits a lot of heat. I am having problems creating the life form. Since there is no air or gravity in outer space how will my creature move on the star? Since the star emits a lot of heat what skin, coating, or special features should my creature have to survive from the heat? Lastly is there a way for my creature to get energy from the heat released by the star? Your help is greatly appreciated. Well, have you ever heard of themosynthesis? It's a theoretical process by which an organism gains energy from thermal cycling similar to the way plants get energy from light. Does the creature life on the star or in the space around it?
SkepticLance Posted May 20, 2006 Posted May 20, 2006 If you ignore speculation of currently unknown sciences, there is no way even in theory that a life form can live on any star, much less a very hot one. The one factor that seems to be essential for life is liquid water. Any speculation of life without that is way out in neverneverland. May I suggest that you set up your life form on a planet (or even in a nebula) in orbit about the star, just far out enough to permit liquid water.
Sayonara Posted May 20, 2006 Posted May 20, 2006 Does this life form need to have evolved on a star, or does it just live there as a colonist? If it is supposed to be native to the star then I am going with SkepticLance.
Dr. Dalek Posted May 20, 2006 Posted May 20, 2006 I have gotten the white dwarf. Wait, do you have a choice of were you put it?
ultralord910 Posted May 20, 2006 Author Posted May 20, 2006 Well, I was assigned to the white dwarf. Is there any way for the life form to survive without water? I'm guessing the way the life form functions does not have to be 100% logical since I'm only in grade 9. It does not have to make perfect sense. So can u guys answer my questions but take into consideration that it does not have to make perfect sense.
Dr. Dalek Posted May 20, 2006 Posted May 20, 2006 Well, I was assigned to the white dwarf. Is there any way for the life form to survive without water? I'm guessing the way the life form functions does not have to be 100% logical since I'm only in grade 9. It does not have to make perfect sense. So can u guys answer my questions but take into consideration that it does not have to make perfect sense. I once read about the possibility of a life form existing on a high gravity planet, neutron stars have a powerful gravitational pull. A life form on a neutron star would probably very compact, small, flat etc. We don't know weather a life form could exist without water or not because scientific agencys have never observed one that didn't. Just say the Life form is a Xerophile so it can live without much water. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerophile
ultralord910 Posted May 20, 2006 Author Posted May 20, 2006 But is there a way for my creature to convert heat into energy for it to survive? Preferably without water.
ultralord910 Posted May 20, 2006 Author Posted May 20, 2006 Also with no gravity or air is there a way for my creature to move?
Gilded Posted May 21, 2006 Posted May 21, 2006 Sure, with some sort of gas thrusting perhaps. Or solar sails.
SkepticLance Posted May 21, 2006 Posted May 21, 2006 Ultralord. Impress your tutor with the quality of your research. Show that it is not theoretically possible for a life form to exist on the star itself. Create a whole ecosystem in orbit about the star, in the liquid water zone. For energy, remeber that there are ways that humans obtain power from heat. eg. a thermocouple. There is no reason why a molecule could not exist that acts like chlorophyll, except using heat to generate the current that drives organic synthesis.
Psycho Posted May 21, 2006 Posted May 21, 2006 Ultralord.For energy' date=' remeber that there are ways that humans obtain power from heat. eg. a thermocouple. There is no reason why a molecule could not exist that acts like chlorophyll, except using heat to generate the current that drives organic synthesis.[/quote'] They already do on volcanic vents on the ocean floor, as there is no light source there.
Gilded Posted May 21, 2006 Posted May 21, 2006 They already do on volcanic vents on the ocean floor, as there is no light source there. I thought this was more of a chemosynthesis thing rather than heat? Some bacteria live in cold seeps where there is no "excess heat" as in from a vent, just the necessary chemicals.
ultralord910 Posted May 21, 2006 Author Posted May 21, 2006 Thanks for your help!!! You guys are great:-)
ultralord910 Posted May 22, 2006 Author Posted May 22, 2006 Okay, I have another question, can you guys please explain to me how exactly the chlorophyll converts heat into energy? It doesn't have to be detailed, just the basic steps. Also there there a material that protects an organism from a lot of heat?
sabbath Posted May 22, 2006 Posted May 22, 2006 Ok will try my best since I'm good at crude explanations. First off, it isn't the chlorophyll that converts energy from the sun (I don't know if you can consider that as heat, but it's more precise saying it that way) into ATP which the plant can use in its everyday processes. Just about every living thing in the planet uses ATP or adenosinetriphosphate. Chorophyll is the pigment by which the plant absorbs light, or rather the different wavelengths of white light (blue, red, yellow, etc) except for green which it reflects. In photosynthesis the whole process can actually be divided into two: light and dark reaction. As the name connotes, light reaction happens when there is light. Now remember that photosynthesis is a chemical reaction...and chemical reactions do not happen without electrons. When sunlight strikes the leaves (we're somewhere in the chloroplasts) a potential difference occurs...let's just say an electron transport chain comes to be...This energy in the form of electrons is necessary to convert water (H20) and CO2 into sugar (maybe starch) which the plant needs. This energy is stored as ATP. I can't elaborate anymore on the light and dark reactions...I've forgotten the specific steps. The dark reaction happens through cellular respiration though. I think it's called Calvin's Cycle. Light reaction product is ATP which needs to be used in the Dark Reaction to convert CO2 into sugar. On your second question...I think the adaptation needed by your creature is the ability to store bodily fluids despite the heat. Think about camels. If it's a microorganism, it would have to have special cellular membranes or something...it can't reproduce or multiply that fast, because reproduction/multiplication requires lots of energy and actually raises the heat of the organism's environment....at least I think so anyway... Hope that didn't confuse you...
iglak Posted May 22, 2006 Posted May 22, 2006 protection from the heat? well, anything that reflects the light will create shade, which would be a good protection from the heat. it could be that the organism would sit atop a light sail of some sort. but how it would then get energy from the light, i don't know. also, how does it get the materials to grow and reproduce? they would have to come from the star somehow. or, organisms made out of energy and plasma have been hypothesised in science fiction. although i don't know how that would be possible.
Dr. Dalek Posted May 22, 2006 Posted May 22, 2006 I thought this was more of a chemosynthesis thing rather than heat? Some bacteria live in cold seeps where there is no "excess heat" as in from a vent, just the necessary chemicals. I read about this. Apparently there are photosynthetic organisms on the ocean floor that gain some of their energy from light in the near infrared range that is emmited from the vents.
ultralord910 Posted May 22, 2006 Author Posted May 22, 2006 Well since there is no carbon dioxide in space is there anyway my life form can perform photosynthesis or a process similar to that without the carbon dioxide? Only from the light of the white dwarf? Will only heat work?
Dr. Dalek Posted May 22, 2006 Posted May 22, 2006 Well since there is no carbon dioxide in space is there anyway my life form can perform photosynthesis or a process similar to that without the carbon dioxide? Only from the light of the white dwarf? Will only heat work? Light could work, but life tends to take advantage of the highest energy scorce, if the ammount of heat from the star is greater than the ammount of light it might use heat rather than light out of sheer abundance. Also in space might be a hard place for respiration or photo/themosynthesis, or any kind of gass exchange. You could say the organism lives on an asteroid orbiting the star, or other small rocky body, or in a cloud of dust and exchanges organic minerals from these.
ultralord910 Posted May 22, 2006 Author Posted May 22, 2006 Well if it uses heat can you explain how exactly the life form turns heat into energy?
Dr. Dalek Posted May 22, 2006 Posted May 22, 2006 Well if it uses heat can you explain how exactly the life form turns heat into energy? No one can say how a thermosynthetic creature would work because no one has ever observed one. Try this website: http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Node/5345/
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