If Einstein wasn't invented the nuclear bomb when it was invented?

[Guest Voderdopad]

Wonder what was happened if Einstein wasn't invented the nuclear bomb? Does it was invented by someone else? When?

 

Thanks,

[bascule]

Your grammar is making my head explode.

 

The atomic bomb was invented by the Manhattan Project, which included such names as Oppenheimer, Teller, and Feynman

[ecoli]

Einstein DID NOT invent the nuclear bomb! He merely came up with ideas that made the idea of a nuclear bomb seem feasible. He was actually very against the building of the nuclear bomb and had nothing to do with the Manhattan project (AFAIK)

[deltanova]

one of my favorite quotes from my favorite movies..

 

"blaming einstein for the nuclear bomb is the same as blaming Newton for Gravity"

[Bettina]

Your grammar is making my head explode.

 

Hahahaha..... I needed that today. God, what I laugh I just had.

 

I'm just laughing at your comment for some reason. His grammar is ok with me.

 

Bee

[Gilded]

If I ever come by a flux capacitor I'll go and punch Democritus and a few other guys for coming up with the idea of atoms in the first place.

[deltanova]

If I ever come by a flux capacitor I'll go and punch Democritus and a few other guys for coming up with the idea of atoms in the first place.

 

good idea, while u are there, make sure u get the ape that hitler is decendent from.

[padren]

If I ever come by a flux capacitor I'll go and punch Democritus and a few other guys for coming up with the idea of atoms in the first place.

 

Then how will your future self ever generate the nessecary 1.21 gigawatts!

[ecoli]

good idea, while u are there, make sure u get the ape that hitler is decendent from.

 

That's always dangerous... how do you know that somebody 100X worse then Hitler wouldn't have taken power.

[Guest Voderdopad]

Thanks

[KLB]

He was actually very against the building of the nuclear bomb and had nothing to do with the Manhattan project (AFAIK)

Actually at Oppenheimer's request, Einstein wrote letters to President Roosevelt encouraging him to take Oppenheimer's ideas seriously. Oppenheimer wrote the letters, Einstein signed them and I believe a NY congressman or business person with access to the oval office presented them to Roosevelt. I can't remember exactly who presented the letters to Roosevelt, but I recently saw a History Channel presentation on this issue. It was really quite interesting.

 

It is kind of ironic that the most destructive weapons on earth essentially invented by a pacifist (Oppenheimer) and promoted by another pacifist (Einstein).

[GutZ]

"Einstein’s connection with the politics of the nuclear bomb is well known: he signed the famous letter to President Franklin Roosevelt that persuaded the United States to take the idea seriously, and he engaged in postwar efforts to prevent nuclear war...In 1933, Hitler came to power. Einstein was in America, and declared he would not return to Germany. Then, while Nazi militia raided his house and confiscated his bank account, a Berlin newspaper displayed the headline “Good News from Einstein – He’s Not Coming Back.” In the face of the Nazi threat, Einstein renounced pacifism, and eventually, fearing that German scientists would build a nuclear bomb, proposed that the United States should develop its own. But even before the first atomic bomb had been detonated, he was

publicly warning of the dangers of nuclear war and proposing international control of nuclear weaponry."

 

^From a brief history of time (book)

 

I guess it was for first strike or a deterrent measure, to prevent nuclear war. It almost worked.

[deltanova]

That's always dangerous... how do you know that somebody 100X worse then Hitler wouldn't have taken power.

 

i dont, but who knows. millions of possibilites are out there. i mean, alot more people than just Hitler would have been descendant from that one ape, and i didnt mean kill it either, im not THAT violent and i dont seriously beleive that one million year old ape should pay for some blokes messed up ideas in the future.

[Klaynos]

Isn't there quite a strong theory that most humans outside of africa (or "recent" decendents of africans) are decended from one, or a group of closely related females quite along way down the evolutionary chain?

 

I can't really remember it's been years since I studied this...

 

</offtopic>

[silkworm]

Don't forget Ferme's contribution, and since the bomb there have been less deaths each year due to war than before. It has a knack for keeping nations from imposing on another nation's sovereignty without a very good reason, usually.

 

Isn't there quite a strong theory that most humans outside of africa (or "recent" decendents of africans) are decended from one, or a group of closely related females quite along way down the evolutionary chain?

 

Yes, the out of Africa theory. Essentially there is no difference among the human species because we're all African's who eventually started displaying lighter pigments in more northern climates to help with vitamin D absorption.

[ecoli]

Don't forget Ferme's contribution, and since the bomb there have been less deaths each year due to war than before. It has a knack for keeping nations from imposing on another nation's sovereignty without a very good reason, usually.

 

Unfortunately, a demonstration of the bomb's power had to be made in order for this realization to occur.

 

Also consider the bomb probably saved the lives of millions of american soldiers that would have been lost in a land invasion (my grandfather included). Also, it helped keep the Russians (and communism) out of Japan, which insured strong economic ties with Japan in the future. So, the effects weren't all bad, despite the tragic loss of life.

[CharonY]

In that case I wonder why there was not a simple demonstration without dropping it on two(!) cities. The Japanese were already negotiating peace conditions (actually afaik they were opposed to removal of the emperor while the USA demanded unconditional surrender, but maybe there was more to it).

And if it was also intended as a demonstration of power against the soviets, they could have been invited too...

[ecoli]

In that case I wonder why there was not a simple demonstration without dropping it on two(!) cities. The Japanese were already negotiating peace conditions (actually afaik they were opposed to removal of the emperor while the USA demanded unconditional surrender' date=' but maybe there was more to it).

And if it was also intended as a demonstration of power against the soviets, they could have been invited too...[/quote']

 

The way I know it, they were negotiating peace terms amoung themselves, but they weren't ready to surrender yet.

 

There are some places that claim that they did surrender after the first bomb, and before the second, but, for whatever reason, we didn't know that. I haven't been able to substantiate this, however.

[KLB]

There are some places that claim that they did surrender after the first bomb, and before the second, but, for whatever reason, we didn't know that. I haven't been able to substantiate this, however.

I've seen a lot of speculation on this on History shows as shown on the History Channel. I have a feeling that if there had been an attempt to surrender it was done in a way that wasn't understood by American intelligence gatherers or the message didn't get relayed up the chain of command fast enough.

 

Given the state of technology in those days, a surrender couldn't be trusted to a quiet back channel coded in diplomatic language. It had to be broadcast as loudly as possible across as many forms of communication as possible and using very clear language. Unfortunately for the Japanese their culture tended to use a lot of ceremonial subtly that Americans just didn't understand.

[silkworm]

We bombed Japan because they simply were never going to surrender and carry on in the name of the Emperor. The concept that there would be no surrender, and Pearl Harbor made them meeting the bomb an inevitability. WW2 may still be going on today if the bomb hadn't shocked them into surrender. This isn't the playground, this is real life, and although I like Japan, I don't feel sorry for them.

[ecoli]

We bombed Japan because they simply were never going to surrender and carry on in the name of the Emperor. The concept that there would be no surrender, and Pearl Harbor made them meeting the bomb an inevitability. WW2 may still be going on today if the bomb hadn't shocked them into surrender. This isn't the playground, this is real life, and although I like Japan, I don't feel sorry for them.

 

Well, don't exagerrate. There's really no chance for the war to have gone on that much longer. Japan was the last axis power left, Germany having been overrun, and Mussolini being overthrown by his own people.

 

A full scale invasion would have been very costly in terms of lives, but it would have no doubt been succesfull.

[Pangloss]

It's important to keep in mind that the full story on the decision to use the bomb was not actually knowable until after 1995, when the full Ultra/Magic summaries and un-redacted intercepts became available.

 

Great book: "Downfall" by Richard Frank.

[abeefaria]

One thing I am taking away from this thread is a reaffrimation of how bad pacifisim really is.

 

You are a pacifist (Einstein) and work toward world peace. Some nut job is bent on killing a lot of people and he steals your bank account. Then you realize that maybe pacifism probably isn't the best course of action (Einstein).

 

I am keeping my arsenal in the hopes of never having to use it instead of being unarmed and needing the weapons.

[JaKiri]

It was necessary to drop the second bomb. Directly targeting two seperate cities is a verification that, yes, it is us who are doing it.

 

Don't forget it's not just American casualties that were saved; the Japanese would have created enormous, underarmed, civilian militias, and the casualties there would have been incredible.

 

One thing I am taking away from this thread is a reaffrimation of how bad pacifisim really is.

 

You are a pacifist (Einstein) and work toward world peace. Some nut job is bent on killing a lot of people and he steals your bank account. Then you realize that maybe pacifism probably isn't the best course of action (Einstein).

 

I am keeping my arsenal in the hopes of never having to use it instead of being unarmed and needing the weapons.

 

What a load of tosh.

[YT2095]

I am keeping my arsenal in the hopes of never having to use it instead of being unarmed and needing the weapons.

 

the Only thing that statement has going for is that it eludes to the Philosophy that "It`s better to have and not need, than to need and not Have", beyond that, I`m with Jakari