TimbaLanD Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 If you drop a small ant from the top of the Eiffel tower, would it die on impact considering “0” air resistance?
JaKiri Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 It would, ignoring air resistance, be moving at some 80m/s, which isn't shabby. It would, in fact, just go splat. Taking air resistance into account, what YT said. It has an extremely significant effect for critters of that size.
YT2095 Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 in a Vacuum certainly Splat! you only need to ask any biker how many bugs go splat on his/her visor, or even car windscreens and that`s no where near 200mph. With air, you`de find the bug would be quite some distance from the base of the tower too, in fact spiders often exploit this as a means of transportation.
scicop Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 if you knew how much the ant weighed and the exact height you drop the ant from you can figure out the force of impact! "College" Physics 101 for retards who want to pursue medicine.
JaKiri Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 if you knew how much the ant weighed and the exact height you drop the ant from you can figure out the force of impact! You'd also need to know how long the impact would take.
GutZ Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 but with what? jello? concrete? O_o I betcha it could survive the jello and get a meal out of it.
YT2095 Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 last I looked the bottom of that french monstrosity wasn`t Jello.
scicop Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 You'd also need to know how long the impact would take. No you wouldn't to know time to determine the force. and I don't think jello would do anything at that velocity. Surface tension.
YT2095 Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 I can say for a Certainty that Jakari isn`t given to saying such things without GOOD reason, and am equaly certain that he knows f=ma and all that stuff too. so maybe he`s factoring in the length of time for the drop, as to whether the ant will reach "terminal velocity" etc... perhaps Braking forces of an ants structure and thus slowing it down to sub critical velocities before fatal damage is caused? I`ve no idea, but watch this space, he`ll be correct!
JaKiri Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 Impact on what? The ground? so maybe he`s factoring in the length of time for the drop The time taken to stop, from when it hits. If it stops instantaneously upon touching the ground, the force would be infinite. Force x (change in time) = mass x (change in velocity). (This is the definition of an impulse, derived from Newton's Second Law of Motion; a Force times the time over which it occurs, or integrated in the case of a non-constant force) Mass x (change in velocity) is a value you can find out from the above information (the change in velocity will be equal to 80m/s, for example) and the mass of an ant, which can be easily estimated. However, you do not know the time it takes to impact, so you can find the impulse it undergoes - but you can't find the force. No you wouldn't to know time to determine the force. I'm afraid you do, unless you think that the force isn't proportional to the rate of change of velocity with respect to time. Newton II and all that jazz.
scicop Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 Well, the OP stated "o" air resistance, which I take as a vacuum so terminal velocity would not occur. If you would take into account the presence of "air", then I believe a terminal velocity can be reached, given the weight and surface area (contributing to a friction coef) as well as surface texture, as well as how the ant is postured as it falls (balled up or legs out). An if we really get minute with the details, then temperature would play a apart as it would determine the density of air. Humidity too I think would play a part and maybe time of day,....wow..i can really start building up the variables here no? All in all, we gonna have a dead ant.
JaKiri Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 Well, the OP stated "o" air resistance, which I take as a vacuum so terminal velocity would not occur. Well, it would in a sense. When the thing hits the ground.
scicop Posted June 9, 2006 Posted June 9, 2006 I'm afraid you do' date=' unless you think that the force isn't proportional to the rate of change of velocity [i']with respect to time[/i]. Newton II and all that jazz. but..that's gravity! ahh..newtonian physics..the old days.
JaKiri Posted June 10, 2006 Posted June 10, 2006 but..that's gravity! ahh..newtonian physics..the old days. Ah, I see we're in the "talk a lot of bollocks and ignore actual physics" zone here on Science Forums.
YT2095 Posted June 10, 2006 Posted June 10, 2006 The time taken to stop' date=' from when it hits. If it stops [i']instantaneously[/i] upon touching the ground, the force would be infinite. However, you do not know the time it takes to impact, so you can find the impulse it undergoes - but you can't find the force. aha, that`s would the Second part I mentioned then: " perhaps Braking forces of an ants structure and thus slowing it down to sub critical velocities before fatal damage is caused?" it Had to be One of the Two
Callipygous Posted June 11, 2006 Posted June 11, 2006 so in summary, yes the ant would be dead if there were no air resistance, and jakiri is right in saying that you cant calculate the actual force without knowing how long it takes the ant to splatter completely flat on the pavement?
JaKiri Posted June 11, 2006 Posted June 11, 2006 so in summary, yes the ant would be dead if there were no air resistance, and jakiri is right in saying that you cant calculate the actual force without knowing how long it takes the ant to splatter completely flat on the pavement? Yes, well, sort of. It would, most likely, be fine if air resistance was taken into account, however.
YT2095 Posted June 11, 2006 Posted June 11, 2006 it would be fine, trust me, I`ve done it with ants, spiders and flies (in plastic containers so they couldn`t fly away) non of them died or even got injured in anyway noticable. I`ve even done Rocket launches with insect payloads a few of those DID die though. discounting the Rockets however, the plain Drop was from 120 feet up onto tarmac, the ants were done in handfulls so as not to lose the landing point, maybe 120 foot wasn`t high enough, but yes, all those we saw lived perfectly
Steph Posted June 11, 2006 Posted June 11, 2006 it would be fine' date=' trust me, I`ve done it with ants, spiders and flies (in plastic containers so they couldn`t fly away) non of them died or even got injured in anyway noticable. I`ve even done Rocket launches with insect payloads a few of those DID die though.discounting the Rockets however, the plain Drop was from 120 feet up onto tarmac, the ants were done in handfulls so as not to lose the landing point, maybe 120 foot wasn`t high enough, but yes, all those we saw lived perfectly [/quote'] flies in plastic containers survived... How big were then containers?
YT2095 Posted June 12, 2006 Posted June 12, 2006 just big enough to fit a fly into, the 1`st one we tried was the cap off a pen, but drinking straws cut into half inch lengths with sellotape over the ends is what we chose to use as it was easier to get the fly back out after.
TimbaLanD Posted June 12, 2006 Author Posted June 12, 2006 So, basically it would die! ) But with air resistance, it seem like it would not die regardless of the height it’s dropped from!!!
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