Ha Ha Ha America

[bascule]

This film is "A translated harangue from China to the U.S.A. that laughs at our missteps" (Warning: Frothing with obscenity, in subtitles only)

 

http://festival.sundance.org/2006/watch/film.aspx?which=402&category=DOC

 

I thought this film was brilliant, not only in pointing out America's foibles in the international marketplace, but also pointing out how China has grown into a business juggernaut through the exploitation of its own human resources. Through some pretty dark sarcasm the film manages to make about as much fun of China as it does America.

 

Watch it, it's awesome! What's your take?

[Pangloss]

If their point was that America's relationship with China has been bad for both countries, then it's an excellent demonstration of ignorance.

[The Spith]

Nice film. Quite an eye-opener and also funny at parts as well, especially the 'war on anxiety'.

 

If their point was that America's relationship with China has been bad for both countries, then it's an excellent demonstration of ignorance.

 

I think the point was that America's relationship with China has been very good for China at America's expense.

[Pangloss]

If that's true (and I think it's a debatable point), then very few, if any, of the points raised in that film are examples of it. There are no eye-openers in that piece of work, only mind-closers.

 

I highly recommend more objective and analytical works, such as Friedman's "The World is Flat" or Milloy's "Junk Science Judo". Both of those authors further the concept that China has done very well for itself, and point out the costs that the relationship has had with regard to the US, but both authors would laugh themselves silly over the immature and misleading "information" in this piece of work.

 

It's just fear-mongering nonsense. It's like Jay Leno joking about the President. You laugh but you (ought to) know better than to think it's actually on target.

[ecoli]

@pangloss - are you saying we have nothing worry about from china?

[Pangloss]

Is that the only way to accurately assess the situation with China to you? Fear and panic?

 

Go back and re-read my last post, and in particular the part where I mentioned the costs of dealing with China.

[ecoli]

Is that the only way to accurately assess the situation with China to you? Fear and panic?

 

no, I was merely asking if you would clarify your position.

[bascule]

I highly recommend more objective and analytical works

 

This is art. It isn't trying to be objective or analytical.

 

such as Friedman's "The World is Flat"

 

I read that after my boss recommended it to me. It's an excellent book.

 

...or Milloy's "Junk Science Judo". Both of those authors further the concept that China has done very well for itself, and point out the costs that the relationship has had with regard to the US, but both authors would laugh themselves silly over the immature and misleading "information" in this piece of work.

 

You're looking at this entirely within the wrong light. Something tells me you're not big on artistic interpretation, are you? You sound like someone who'd try to read a belles lettres novel for informative content rather than aesthetic value. Yes, many of the "facts" presented in this film, such as Chinese "pipes" being longer than American ones are, in fact, incorrect!

 

You do realize what a sarcastic tone is used throughout the entire movie, do you not?

 

It's just fear-mongering nonsense. It's like Jay Leno joking about the President. You laugh but you (ought to) know better than to think it's actually on target.

 

It's not supposed to be "on target". This is clearly a film that you have to read into to see what it's actually saying.

[scicop]

Yeah, ok so the point their trying to make is that China, at American's expense, will become the economic #1 of the world. This is not an eye-opener. Asian Markets are the hottest place to be now.

 

Can't argue that China has a work ethic that surpasses american standards

 

Although the Great Leap forward, Cultural Revolution, and Mao's rule were dark times for China, its impossible to refute the benefits of those eras to the Chinese people today!!!!!!!

 

During those times Chinese workers were lead to believe that intense labor and the communist way of life was the right way; and that capitalist were wrong. The low workers (peasents) were held in highest standards above doctors and teachers.

 

Now you take those strong work values, that strong respect for hard work (albiet not necessarily all the communist values), combine that with that renewed appreciation for education (late 1970's) and you apply that to current day Chinese population in a free market government.... look out America..HA HA HA.

 

The reality is that the authors are taking their history, their so called communist, intense labor philsophiles, and spinning it to a "Communist philsophyis better/ China is better than you" point of view. How easy it is to forget how not to long ago chinese were fleeing china to get away from their communist ways, now they're a embracing it.

 

And for that, I say Bravo to the chinese.

 

But the point they made is nothing new, not an eye opener, but something that dumb americans who don't even pick up a newspaper would think as thought provoking.

[bascule]

Yeah, ok so the point their trying to make is that China, at American's expense, will become the economic #1 of the world.

 

That's about half their point. If that's all you took from this film you are completely missing the dissonance between the images being presented and the speaker's harrangue.

[Pangloss]

This is art. It isn't trying to be objective or analytical.

...

This is clearly a film that you have to read into to see what it's actually saying.

 

Well that's a contradiction in itself' date=' but let me also remind you of this quote from your opening post:

 

I thought this film was brilliant, not only in pointing out America's foibles in the international marketplace, but also pointing out how China has grown into a business juggernaut through the exploitation of its own human resources.

 

So which is it? A work of art that's not intended to be analytical, or a brilliant pointing-out of America's foibles in the international marketplace and an explanation of how China has grown into a business juggernaut through the exploitation of its own human resources? It can't be both.

 

 

You're looking at this entirely within the wrong light. Something tells me you're not big on artistic interpretation, are you? You sound like someone who'd try to read a belles lettres novel for informative content rather than aesthetic value. Yes, many of the "facts" presented in this film, such as Chinese "pipes" being longer than American ones are, in fact, incorrect!

...

You do realize what a sarcastic tone is used throughout the entire movie, do you not?

 

Ah yes, the old "if you disagree with me you must not get it" argument. Only those who agree can understand the creative process and parse the complex combination of artistic expression and political insight. If you disagree with the expressions, you must not have understood them, and/or must not be able to appreciate the artistic value.

 

So... why bother? Why preach if only the choir speaks latin?

 

 

In fact I've demonstrated above that I know exactly what they did, I "got it" just fine, and I even drew an obvious analogy to other work.

 

It's interesting to me that you seem intent to elevate this to some sort of higher plane of satire or, as you put it, "art". To use my earlier (and apparently very apt) analogy, I think Jay Leno is a hoot, but I know better than to take him too seriously. You seem to have missed that part of my response, to your detriment.

[scicop]

That's about half their point. If that's all you took from this film you are completely missing the dissonance between the images being presented and the speaker's harrangue.

 

um..hmm..i don't know...um..China is dirty and filthy?

umm..the have bad dental hygiene?

um....they have no sense of fashion?

 

what am i missing?

 

 

but joking aside, as for the other points, I can't say I disagree. But its nothing startling to the well informed American. Actually..change that..with exception of Bush and his cronies (the most well informed americans), Had to clearify that. Personally i don't see anything special about the movie.

 

Again Its not that startling or thought provoking.

[bascule]

You're both right. This movie clearly does a bad job of telling people what they already know. Who cares about its aesthetic value when it obviously has zero informative content.

 

Pangloss, go ahead and delete this thread.

 

I'm going to go burn down an art museum now.

[scicop]

You're both right. This movie clearly does a bad job of telling people what they already know. Who cares about its aesthetic value when it obviously has zero informative content.

 

Pangloss' date=' go ahead and delete this thread.

 

I'm going to go burn down an art museum now.[/quote']

 

Geez..I hate to see what happens when a dude like this goes to an independant film festival.

Clear the theaters.

[Pangloss]

Something tells me you're not big on artistic interpretation, are you?

 

You know, I hate to sound like an old curmugeon, but I can't help but be struck by the irony of being scolded about the arts, which is something I've probably forgotten more about than most kids today have had shoved into their transfat-scrambled, hip-hop-addled brains. Not saying that applies to anyone here -- I may disagree with you, bascule, but I respect your opinion and find it to be far more interesting and informed than most people of your (apparent) generation -- I just think it's amusing.

 

At any rate, in my opinion this isn't a higher, artistic expression, that's somehow too subtle for the great unwashed masses to understand. What it is is just another piece of rambling, left-wing, political ranting, off the mark and steeped in misconceptions, couched in artistic clothing. And the only reason it's (very revealingly) posted at Sundance instead of YouTube is because it is left wing in its sentiments.

 

Your mileage may vary. More power to you.

[ecoli]

You know, I hate to sound like an old curmugeon, but I can't help but be struck by the irony of being scolded about the arts, which is something I've probably forgotten[/i'] more about than most kids today have had shoved into their transfat-scrambled, hip-hop-addled brains.

 

nah... Bascule likes 80's music.

[bascule]

I may disagree with you, bascule, but I respect your opinion and find it to be far more interesting and informed than most people of your (apparent) generation -- I just think it's amusing.

 

Cool. I'm working for a startup now which has a partnership with a Chinese company, and that's involved quite a bit of culture shock and been a harrowing learning experience.

 

At any rate, in my opinion this isn't a higher, artistic expression, that's somehow too subtle for the great unwashed masses to understand. What it is is just another piece of rambling, left-wing, political ranting, off the mark and steeped in misconceptions, couched in artistic clothing.

 

Well, personally I enjoyed the juxtaposition maintained throughout the tirade, particularly the dilapidated amusement park, ostensibly in that state because the populus is too busy working to make use of it. I further enjoyed the knocks on "New York ****ing City" from a purely population-based metric. They talk of the greatness of Wen Zhao as they pan across shots of dilapidated slums. It's this disconnect that I particularly enjoyed... that beneath the smug arrogance of their burgeoning economy and America's missteps are a number of seething social problems.

 

nah... Bascule likes 80's music.

 

I certainly love a great deal of '80s music, but I primarily like '70s music... I also enjoy grunge and even a number of newer indie bands.

[scicop]

You know' date=' I hate to sound like an old curmugeon, but I can't help but be struck by the irony of being scolded about the arts, which is something I've probably [i']forgotten[/i] more about than most kids today have had shoved into their transfat-scrambled, hip-hop-addled brains. Not saying that applies to anyone here -- I may disagree with you, bascule, but I respect your opinion and find it to be far more interesting and informed than most people of your (apparent) generation -- I just think it's amusing.

 

At any rate, in my opinion this isn't a higher, artistic expression, that's somehow too subtle for the great unwashed masses to understand. What it is is just another piece of rambling, left-wing, political ranting, off the mark and steeped in misconceptions, couched in artistic clothing. And the only reason it's (very revealingly) posted at Sundance instead of YouTube is because it is left wing in its sentiments.

 

Your mileage may vary. More power to you.

 

Bravo!

[padren]

I do think it was intended as a double shot. On the one hand, the macro-economics of American and Chinese competition and at the same time, its a knock on the sort of chinese propaganda that is routinely produced.

 

If it was pure left-wing "oh china's better cuz its not hillibilly president" they wouldn't have included the slums, and shown the undercurrent in those visuals, but it was intended to cut both ways.

[Edtharan]

If it was pure left-wing "oh china's better cuz its not hillibilly president" they wouldn't have included the slums, and shown the undercurrent in those visuals, but it was intended to cut both ways.

If you just read the words then it seems anti American, but if you look just at the pictures you see that it is makeing parralels with both China and America.

 

I think it is actually saying that even though there exists the perception of difference between the two countries and cultures, that there are essentially very similar in many ways.

[bascule]

I think it is actually saying that even though there exists the perception of difference between the two countries and cultures, that there are essentially very similar in many ways.

 

I kind of got a sense of "Americans may be fat, stupid, and lazy, but at least they know how to have fun."

 

I thought one of the most telling moments was the "Why use robots when we can use PEOPLE?" ha ha stupid american part