Work - Personality or technology ?

[oldtobor]

It seems to me that in the last decade or more technical know how is no longer so important for companies. I have the impression that personality modes, human networks, who you know, AND ESPECIALLY HOW YOU BEHAVE is much more important. Now this may have always been true to some degree but it seems like companies today don't even know how to judge people or judge by quirks or gut feelings. They ask for alot of knowledge (at least in software, the field I think I know) but in the end it seems that what really counts is AGE, HOW MUCH OVERTIME YOU ARE WILLING TO DO, HOW MUCH YOU LICK ASS etc.

 

I mean even the relationship between work and time at work or working hours is not at all clear or demonstrated. You can achieve alot in 5 hours of work, but then companies think you worked too little, rarely looking at the real results of the work. Whereas if you stay to 10 pm every night and not get anything done you give the impression that you are working. Like in Japan the "salaryman" has to wait until his boss leaves at midnight even if he does nothing because behavior and ritual are of the upmost importance. Then again companies just hand out insane deadlines so you are forced to work 80 hours a week.

 

All this could be the result of technology's efficiency because the basic mechanisms work, production is relatively easy and basic needs are more or less easy to satisfy. So you have companies that just like to play around with people, I know many good people who were fired or let go or laid off etc because the companies don't even know what they want, or just to express a PURE STATEMENT OF POWER AND CONTROL.

 

Any ideas, am I dead wrong, or are there logical reasons behind this ?

[ecoli]

maybe, but I think your tech. know-how is becoming less sophisticated, so everybody can learn how to use the computers.

 

It's a lot easier to click on a folder then memorizing a bunch of command-lines.

 

Perhaps because computers are becoming easier to use, when they malfunction, people are less equipped to handle it. this is why companies have tech-support.

 

In the old days, if you knew how to use a computer, you were more likely to know how to fix it yourself.

[scicop]

wow, well, I'll half agree. All of those combined. Knowlegde gained from technical know how is always an advantage but it is not only essential to know HOW to apply but how to COMMUNICATE it.

 

Basically companies want it ALL. WHO you know only helps if your good (smart) or your trying to get into a business owned by your wife's family. Networking only works if you're good. That's basically it.

 

Corporate companies drain you (I went corporate for a while, left pretty freakinig quickly), you work Mad hours, and work with people who are just worried about Covering their own ARSES. They like to emphasize team work, but you can't have team work when everyone is CYA. There is no "I" in team..yeah right. Doesn't work.

 

As far as technology, it has not been good for the Cogs/Sheeps who hold a coporate job. Everything operates in real-time now, what you thought was due today was due 5 days ago, and assigned 2 days ago. Not only that, everything is operating 24/7 because chances are you have your colleagues in India doing work while you're sleeping at night. You wake up the next morning and there's 50 emails on your blackberry. So even when you leave your job, you're still working.

 

What's worse is that some of these companies are BRAINWASHING you to think that working long hours is a great thing to do, that if you don't work long hours you're worthless. I'm sure the spirit of Mao Zedong is smiling at "capital-roadest " americans right this moment.

 

But I discovered the loop hole..its called G-JOB! Government baby. Normal work hours, decent people, not money focused, and lots of teamwork and best of all...retirement after 20 years with non-contributed pension!

 

And people wonder why the NYPD is attracting people with top-notch business degrees and worked in coporate america. All comes down to quality of life . So while my colleagues at age 55 are still working to pay for their late model BMW or lexus, I'll be done, probably in some country where the america dollar is worth something...Costa Rica here I come.

[pHoToN_gUrL]

i think personality is more important, however u should know the technology other wise they won't hire u, but keeping the job depends more on yr personality. Besides, a person can improve his/her tech know how over time, so i think the companies would prefer a better personality person, some one who "obeys" them. It's thier company so it's thier rules, personality can take u much farther than tech know how. One of my teachers, who used to be an engineer, told us that the largest coorparations r run by B students, not the A students, since B students generally hav better social skills n a personality which is preferred.

[oldtobor]

The point is what is being produced today in most companies ? My idea is that since most basic needs and products are available and can easily be produced, most companies now just produce fluff. I mean what sense does it make for managers to have endless meetings talking about vague ideas etc ? Why is most work simply information ? What seems to be produced at the end of the day is practically hot air, nothing or pseudo projects that are all thrown away the next day and the cycle goes on forever.

 

For those items that must really be produced and are produced, there is no need to talk about it forever, there is no need for a traditional company structure in most cases, it can be done quickly and at a very low cost. Why rent out offices in high cost cities ? Because the dominating culture is one of status quo, don't really change anything. Why do people have to drive to offices in silicon valley when most work there is just thoughts ? Because companies want to make a STRONG STATEMENT OF PURE POWER AND CONTROL.

[scicop]

nah, its the people. They just like the sounds of their own voice, and like to give the illusion that their important. Fluff as you call it.

[Pangloss]

If you don't like the system, don't participate in it. The gun you perceive at your head was put there by your own need to keep up with the Joneses, not your need to eat and breathe.

[oldtobor]

If you don't like the system, don't participate in it. The gun you perceive at your head was put there by your own need to keep up with the Joneses, not your need to eat and breathe.

 

The range of most salaries in the US is between 1,000 dollars to 3,000 dollars a month. IF you want more you have to work for "real companies"...

 

The real companies are the ones that won't hire you or the ones that will keep you for 6 months or a year then kick you out because of the insane work load they hand you. Who can find a job in a "real company" anymore ? If you walk on water and have a hundred "networked" people within, maybe. These "real comapines" can choose who they want and very few normal humans can get in.

 

I know alot of techs that are 35 years or older and can't find any 50k jobs anymore. Tell me where in the US they will hire an average good tech that isn't willing to be burned out by stress !

[Mokele]

I'm sorry, but 50K? What do you actually need 50K for? I live in a quite nice apartment, care for my menagerie of pets and my carnivorous plants, and have plenty of money left over for fun and eating out and such, all on 16K. Now, granted, if you have to drive to work or have a house, you might need more, but not over 3 times that.

 

I'm with Pangloss, this is about keeping up with the Joneses, not basic survival.

 

Mokele

[Pangloss]

Some of that stuff is just flat-out wrong. For example:

 

The range of most salaries in the US is between 1' date='000 dollars to 3,000 dollars a month. IF you want more you have to work for "real companies"...

[/quote']

 

You might want to explain that to the founder of every single one of those companies. They all started with nothing. I made quite a pile as an independent consultant (six figures for multiple years), and I was hardly the only one. Yeah things changed around 2000/2001, and there was a sharp dip, but that's totally turned around over the last couple of years.

 

And I sympathize with people's difficulties, but I don't have much sympathy for people who blame their problems on others, like this:

 

The real companies are the ones that won't hire you or the ones that will keep you for 6 months or a year then kick you out because of the insane work load they hand you. Who can find a job in a "real company" anymore ? If you walk on water and have a hundred "networked" people within, maybe. These "real comapines" can choose who they want and very few normal humans can get in.

 

I know alot of techs that are 35 years or older and can't find any 50k jobs anymore. Tell me where in the US they will hire an average good tech that isn't willing to be burned out by stress !

 

Nonsense. I teach people with exactly that kind of profile, and they're having no trouble landing appropriate jobs. Over the last couple of years Monster ads for IT jobs have gone through the roof. It's INSANE how much opportunity is out there. As for the stress level, like I said, if you don't like it, do something else.

 

In ten thousand years of human history people have not had the kinds of opportunities they have today, to get ahead in the world, to make something of themselves, to have those things be based on THEIR choices and not the dictates of others. There are ups and downs, I agree, but blaming your problems on others is not the way to improve society or your lot.

[oldtobor]

As for the stress level' date=' like I said, if you don't like it, do something else.

 

In ten thousand years of human history people have not had the kinds of opportunities they have today, to get ahead in the world, to make something of themselves, to have those things be based on THEIR choices and not the dictates of others. There are ups and downs, I agree, but blaming your problems on others is not the way to improve society or your lot.[/quote']

 

Thanks for your views, that is exactly what I am looking for. So you admit that the stress levels are high or very high ? Like 60 hours or 80 hours a week ? That if you are forced to work 60 plus hours a week it may not be your choice but the company's ?

 

Of course there is an infinite amount of oppurtunity if you want to work 24 hours a day for 2,000 dollars a month. Really are all those jobs mostly hard ones to keep and maintain or can you pull it off by simply working like a normal human ?

 

Thanks for your views, I appreciate them as I always doubt that I may be seeing things wrongly.

[GutZ]

I think he has a point though. Abuse of the Salary system, and pushing people to the limit so that they can hire consultants who make 6 figure salaries. Squeezing the low tier workers to increase the upper tier economically flow. A company should value every employee because they cant run without the lower tier team, and vise versa. It's just fundementally a series of cranks that run a company, You push one crank to the limit you have to replace it often. Personally I don't think thats great practice, eventually you will run out of cranks. I think most companies with that mentality are setting them up for failure personally.

 

How many people here work 60 hours and get paid less then 50k a year? What position are we to comment on whats unreasonable anyway. You have to take in account that not everyone can be a upper class worker making tons of money.

 

I am sure he/she just want to get paid for what he/she is putting in.

[Pangloss]

No, not everyone can be a "upper class worker making tons of money", but what does that really mean? Does it mean you don't get to put food on the table, or does it mean that you just don't get to drive the latest BMW or Mercedes Benz? If it's the former, we may need to do something about that. If it's the latter, then I really don't see a problem. The things that stop people from being an "upper class worker making tons of money" are SELF-imposed, not societal or dictatorial. If you want to make choices in your life that result in your not becoming an "upper class worker making tons of money", that's your choice. But as I said, if we do reach a point where the incomes are creating situations where you literally cannot put food on the table, then sure, I'm all for holding out a helping hand. Just don't expect me to hand you a pile of food so you can spend more time with your X-Box 360.

 

So you admit that the stress levels are high or very high ? Like 60 hours or 80 hours a week ? That if you are forced to work 60 plus hours a week it may not be your choice but the company's ?

 

No, it's your choice. Always.

 

Yes, much of the IT market is pretty stressful, and it's where a lot of folks spend their time, that's certainly true. But that was their choice. They could have made other choices, but they want that BMW and that X-Box 360 and that's the easiest way they know to get them. You can actually have that X-Box 360 and BMW AND avoid working in a shoebox and doing The Man's bidding, but most people who go that route (such as myself) actually find that you have to do more work rather than less. But I like it because I work for myself. My choices are more direct, and I have more flexibility.

 

Like I said, if you don't like it, do something else. No, nobody is forcing you to do that. Nobody is holding a gun to your head. You want out? Get out.

 

I did it. I had no special knowledge, no great luck, and NO help whatsoever. Is there some particular reason why you cannot? Are you disabled or handicapped in some way?

 

 

Of course there is an infinite amount of oppurtunity if you want to work 24 hours a day for 2,000 dollars a month. Really are all those jobs mostly hard ones to keep and maintain or can you pull it off by simply working like a normal human ?

 

What's a "normal human"? Someone who sits around on their duff all day and can't understand why they're not driving a BMW? No, there's infinite opportunity for infinite income.

 

 

 

Let me get to something more meaningful than YASCA (Yet Another Socialism-Capitalism Argument) if I could. I think it's true that the nature of the IT marketplace has changed. Operating systems are more sophisticated and easier to use. That means you can't get a job sitting on your derrier setting and monitoring user permissions and take home wild incomes anymore just because Joe Bozo the Boss doesn't know a mouse from a monitor. That's right, those jobs aren't available anymore. Tough noogies. Would you prefer that we were all still using Windows 3.1 or MS-DOS?

 

So yeah, now you need a little more knowledge to be a "knowledge worker". What a shocker. So get out there and LEARN it. Make yourself valuable. Learn what it is that employers need people to know.

 

And stop crying about it. I earned my money, I didn't cry for it or beg for it or whine for it. And you can TAKE it from me when you can pry it from my cold, dead fingers.

[oldtobor]

AND avoid working in a shoebox and doing The Man's bidding' date=' but most people who go that route (such as myself) actually find that you have to do [i']more[/i] work rather than less. But I like it because I work for myself. My choices are more direct, and I have more flexibility.

 

Now tell me how much of that extra work is/was "personality" related, human network related, how important was it to be able to sell yourself to other people through your personality or the people you knew ? I ask this because many times I offered to work for companies on my own for their technical problems but they kind of just laughed making me feel as if the problems are not technical or knowledge or making that program, but behavioral, personality related.

 

I mean it seems like the real message today is "anyone can read a book on a given technology, learn it and create that program or technical solution so there is no great demand for this or no need to pay much for this anymore, what we really need is good salesmen, good personality types, good people willing to network with others finding markets and holding lots of meetings, especially people who are willing to stay late nights in the office giving the impression of great effort, sense of urgency, etc."

 

At least this is my impression, if you think I am wrong explain. Thanks.

[Pangloss]

How much of my extra work is caused by my personality weaknesses? I don't know... some amount of it, I suppose. What difference does it make?

 

If I'd stopped doing my thing every time someone laughed at me or told me I couldn't do XYZ, then it would have been a very short career. I simply made a choice -- who cares if they laugh at me so long as they pay up? In the end not only did they pay, but they stopped laughing too.

 

You need to decide what's important to you and come up with a plan to achieve those things. If you're so distracted by things that you perceive to be in your way that you can't even SET your goals, how in the world are you going to ACHIEVE them?