Scientific use of supernatural matters

[reor]

Scientific, logical or practical use of supernatural matters

 

Stuff like "soul" or "praying" may not sound very scientific, but it may bear potential value.

 

Praying is commonly understood as worshipping a superior being, but it also is a form of meditation which can help you relax and focus your mind to achieve better physical performance.

 

The body is said to lose about 21 grams immediately after decease. The soul may be something intangible and unknown, yet contain explanations for various phenomena in the universe.

 

What (theoretical) types of matter are there? I'm looking for a term that describes a theoretical unknown matter, something like "x-matter". Is pseudo- or quasi-matter what i'm looking for?

[mooeypoo]

I think today's physics go towards the more spiritual issues (if you've seen "What the BLEEP do we know" you'll see that many scientists combine the two today) and start getting into the more spiritual/soulful subjects.

 

And there is a purpose of the seperation of words PRAYER and MEDITATION.

 

They may seem similar, but not quite. Meditation is a physical state. I actually use Guided-Meditation (Seld Hypnosis) to get rid of pains, find out what's bothering me, and relax. It's a known method that is entirely physical and psychological.

 

The body is said to lose about 21 grams immediately after decease. The soul may be something intangible and unknown, yet contain explanations for various phenomena in the universe.

 

by the way: was this proven? I heard about it, and never got confirmation..

 

~moo

[reor]

I meant prayers in the sense of positive thinking. What i want to tangent here is the effect of thoughts on the outside world. The brain may influence [acr=A fictional matter i just made up]"reor[/acr]-matter" in a way that events in the environment are affected.

[mooeypoo]

Watch "What the @#%@##! do we know", you'll like it.

 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0399877/

 

http://www.whatthebleep.com/

 

 

It speaks and explains exactly what you're talking about.

 

~moo

[swansont]

The body is said to lose about 21 grams immediately after decease. The soul may be something intangible and unknown' date=' yet contain explanations for various phenomena in the universe.

[/quote']

 

21 grams? Said by whom? Do you honestly think you can claim that without backing it up? Citation, please. Preferably one whose scientific merit hasn't been thoroughly debunked, like the measurements of Duncan MacDougall.

[reor]

Well, i agree. I should have said "i've heard that" or "read it somewhere", but that's beside the point. Or did you mean you have evidence against it? I hoped for one of you guys to "answer" that.

Keep 'em coming!

[mooeypoo]

I guess it's pretty easy to check.. weigh a dying person 'before and after'..?

 

hard to believe this hasn't already been done.. should either be proof for or against it somewhere..

 

~moo

[Edtharan]

The body is said to lose about 21 grams immediately after decease.

There have been various attempts at this experiment (usually by having a dieing person lieing on some form of scales). The experiemnts I have heard about gave these results due to either fruad or more commonly bad experiemtnal design and error. When these experiments are repeated the results can not be reproduced.

 

Thi8s is an important part of good experimental results, they must be reproduceable and none of these experiments has been able to do this (it's a bit like the "Cold Fusion" experiemnts that were done).

[reor]

Yea, i guess it's easy to prove, but i do neither have the resources nor the courage to check that myself (if you know what i mean). I just want to make sure there's evidence, so we can continue and investigate further things.

 

Moo, i got "What The Bleep Do We Know" and "Unlocking The Mystery Of Life". Didn't watch 'em, yet, but will. Thanks for the refference.

 

And could somebody please comment on that thread: reor-matter

[Rebiu]

It would be impossible to conduct this with scientific rigor because using a whole new person every time adds and impossible number of variable. Until you find someone who can die twice.

[Rebiu]

oops

[CPL.Luke]

http://www.snopes.com/religion/soulweight.asp

 

I assume you got the 21 grams figure from the movie, don't believe everything you see especially in a drama film.

 

and there are numerous studies done on prayer and its effects on the human body, they have found that prayer is a highly effective means of stress relief however relaxing over a cup of tee would do the same thing.

[insane_alien]

relaxing over a cup of tee would do the same thing.

 

i don't see how tees could be relaxing. especially if they are in a cup.

 

tea on the other hand, is quite relaxing

[bascule]

The body is said to lose about 21 grams immediately after decease.

 

"is said" isn't exactly a reliable source now, is it?

 

It is said that dragons once inhabited several parts of the world.

It is said that leprechauns occupy parts of Ireland.

It is said that long ago unicorns dwelled in the forests of England.

 

Do you believe everything that... "is said"?

[Sisyphus]

"What the bleep do we know" is nothing but misleading interpretations of already-outdated science.

 

And the "21 grams" thing is an urban legend.

[Aardvark]

Well' date=' i agree. I should have said "i've heard that" or "read it somewhere", but that's beside the point. Or did you mean you have evidence against it? I hoped for one of you guys to "answer" that.

Keep 'em coming! [/quote']

 

If you want any creditability you have to back up your assertations with some reasoning, logic or evidence.

 

Simply asking if there is any evidence against something doesn't hack it.

[reor]

Why do you think i chose such a vague formulation? I want You to do the "hard work".

[rising moon]

does soul have weigh 21 grams??mayve 21 grams is temporary breath in body before die.

[Ndi]

That would require some 17 liters of air, with active lung capacity of roughly 4.8 liters. Assuming it worked that way in the first place. Ignoring compression, a filled balloon weighs the same as an empty balloon, because the air was there anyway, it's just "inside" now. (scratches head) Either way, air is too thin to account for 21 grams.

 

Even body being cooled thus shrinking and displacing less air would still be too little air - even if that actually would make it heavier. So would slowing air convection around the body.

 

Something heavier must leave the body and the scale to make it tilt. On the other hand, something weighing 21 grams being suddenly released is bound to leave an empty place, displace air, thus rendering it visible and audible. Unless you assume that something can actually weigh (be affected by gravity) and still be completely undetectable.

 

Perhaps the scale was affected by other things, like respiration and heartbeat, other movement that kept it balanced to a point. Once the movement stopped, the balance was broken. Not exactly sure WHAT would keep a scale tilted.

 

Or maybe it's all simpler: he added the weights, then the human. Friction in the scale kept it from tilting, to a point where "balance" was obtained. And since there must have been SOME movement (these were sick people, but not full paralysis patients), the movement dislodged the scale. Then the equilibrium could not be obtained because the human WAS lighter.

 

In any case, given the weight the scale must support and the year of the experiment my best guess is that scale was way too imprecise to make the said measurements.

[JesuBungle]

I think it's electrons jumping to a parallel universe, but I'm a burned out Buddhist wannabe:embarass:

[swansont]

That would require some 17 liters of air, with active lung capacity of roughly 4.8 liters. Assuming it worked that way in the first place. Ignoring compression, a filled balloon weighs the same as an empty balloon, because the air was there anyway, it's just "inside" now.

 

Only true if the air wasn't under pressure.

 

Anyway, it's been observed that the measurements were very crude. 21 grams is waaaay inside the error bars of the scales that were used. IOW, the answer is indistinguishable from zero, and it's scientifically irresponsible to advocate a nonzero number.