Why teenagers should avoid marijuana

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

A recent study in rats shows that teenagers who use marijuana may be more vulnerable to heroin addiction later in life, substantiating claims that marijuana really is a "gateway" drug.

 

The test gave six rats doses of THC, the active ingredient in marijuana, every three days, equivalent to smoking about one joint every three days. After the trial period was over, catheters were inserted in those rats and the control group, and the rats were allowed to press a lever to deliver heroin into their system. Those who had previously used THC were found to use more heroin daily, as the researchers believe the THC use affected their brain chemistry and actually lowered their sensitivity to opioids - requiring them to use more heroin to get a high.

 

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn9488

[silkworm]

Cap'n, everybody knows rats are junkies.

 

I don't know how social rats are, but there is a similar study in cocaine use in chimps. The chimps were strapped to a machine that had a button that would give them a dose of coke whenever they hit it. All the chimps loved it and would hit the button over and over and over again, with one exception, the alpha male, who hit it once or twice to check it out and then lost interest. I'm sure if they switched the drug to heroin, I'm sure they'd get the same result, the alpha checking it out but not that interested and the other chimps as fiends.

 

I don't like the study (with the rats), I think it's weak, and I think their interpretation of the results was a bit unqualified.

 

Drugs are drugs, and the only gateway part about it comes from the illegality. When your used to breaking the law to get high, you understand acceptible risks and ways to make things happen that you wouldn't have otherwise without the experience. Drugs sell themselves because they work, and all usage long before biochemistry becomes involved, are based in social factors.

[ecoli]

the 'gateway' part is certainly weak. Just because you may develop a stronger addiction later on, doesn't make you more likely to try that drug. Which, is what a 'gateway drug' means.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

It does, in any case, make them more likely to be addicted if they do try another drug, according to the study. I suppose we'll have to wait for other studies on the same subject before running with the data though.

[GutZ]

When I was 13 I use to smoke "marijuana". Dumb idea, but I think it was better to the alternative (I wasn't...stable). I've tried Shrooms too, but that as far as I ever wanted to go. I did at certain points get use to "pot" where it wasn't statisfying, but unlike others I realized I had to stop using it so damn much.

 

It's just like alcohol. It's a form of escapism. False utopian. After a while that stairway to bliss starts gaining distance away.

 

Teenagers should be aware of false realities and smarten up.

[aj47]

Studies like these although interesting, do not take into account the wide range of factors that cause people to move onto harder drugs and act as poor reasoning for the claim cannabis is a 'gateway' drug.

 

When you actually begin to take some of these factors into account, you see the effects of cannabis on addiction are negliable or non existant. This is evident by the fact that there is no correlation between the number of hard drug users and cannabis smokers which several studies have shown. For example during the 1960s and 1970s cannabis use dramatically increased yet heroin use rapidly declined, and when cannabis use delined during the early 1980's the use of cocaine and heroin both increased, which if anything suggests a negative gateway effect.

 

Using the argument that almost all hard drug users started smoking cannabis is also poor reasoning and irrelevant. The fact is people who are predisposed to and have the opportunity to use drugs are more likely than others to use both marijuana and harder drugs, but because cannabis is more widley available and used, it will inefitably come first.

 

I smoke cannabis fairly regularly and have done for a few years and although I know it isn't harmless, I certainly don't crave bigger highs and go searching for my nearest crack dealer which many people suggest should happen.

[scicop]

the 'gateway' part is certainly weak. Just because you may develop a stronger addiction later on, doesn't make you more likely to try that drug. Which, is what a 'gateway drug' means.

 

http://oas.samhsa.gov/nsduh.htm

 

Nope not weak at all, according to Samhsa, national survey of drug use and health, there is a very strong correlation between users of marijuana and willingness to try other drugs.

 

Physiologically speaking marijuana use sensitizes the neurocircuitry (plasticity) involved in the development of drug addiction behaviors. Thus the use of a more potent activator of this circuitry can precipiatate the development of addictive behaviors. Read work by George Koob and Eric Nestler, big names in addiction biology.

 

I can go more into detail on this topic if you wish, opioid/cannabinoid interactions is my field of expertise.

[ydoaPs]

http://oas.samhsa.gov/nsduh.htm

 

Nope not weak at all' date=' according to Samhsa, national survey of drug use and health, there is a very strong correlation between users of marijuana and willingness to try other drugs.

 

Physiologically speaking marijuana use sensitizes the neurocircuitry (plasticity) involved in the development of drug addiction behaviors. Thus the use of a more potent activator of this circuitry can precipiatate the development of addictive behaviors. Read work by George Koob and Eric Nestler, big names in addiction biology.

 

I can go more into detail on this topic if you wish, opioid/cannabinoid interactions is my field of expertise.[/quote']

Studies like these although interesting' date=' do not take into account the wide range of factors that cause people to move onto harder drugs and act as poor reasoning for the claim cannabis is a 'gateway' drug.

 

When you actually begin to take some of these factors into account, you see the effects of cannabis on addiction are negliable or non existant. This is evident by the fact that there is no correlation between the number of hard drug users and cannabis smokers which several studies have shown. For example during the 1960s and 1970s cannabis use dramatically increased yet heroin use rapidly declined, and when cannabis use delined during the early 1980's the use of cocaine and heroin both increased, which if anything suggests a negative gateway effect.

[/quote']

Who is right?

[aj47]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2538065.stm ... as reference

[ecoli]

http://oas.samhsa.gov/nsduh.htm

 

Nope not weak at all' date=' according to Samhsa, national survey of drug use and health, there is a very strong correlation between users of marijuana and willingness to try other drugs.

 

Physiologically speaking marijuana use sensitizes the neurocircuitry (plasticity) involved in the development of drug addiction behaviors. Thus the use of a more potent activator of this circuitry can precipiatate the development of addictive behaviors. Read work by George Koob and Eric Nestler, big names in addiction biology.

 

I can go more into detail on this topic if you wish, opioid/cannabinoid interactions is my field of expertise.[/quote']

 

But, it's still the realm of phycology. There doesnt seem to be a biological explanation that makes users want to try harder drugs.

[scicop]

Sure there is, one way is called tolerance. That is, more of a certain drug to produce a given high. When one drug doesn't "do it" any more, then there is a high propensity to switch or add on other drugs to obtain that high. See work Mary Jean Kreek, MD (Rockefeller U) a great woman to know and a hell of a woman to work with..but very insightful and accomplished.

 

Again, I strongly urge you to read works by well established and renouned research investigators such as Eric J Nestler, PhD and George F. Koob, PhD, which are HUGE names in addiction biology.

 

You may also want to try works by Robert Swift MD, PhD, and Charles O'brian, MD, PhD also VERY BIG NAMES in addiction biology.

 

As far as whose right, it depends on who you want to believe. I'm more inclined to go with the Samsha data (as well as those of other DHHS agencies) since many other studies have corroborated their findinigs. As far as Rand goes, they are an independant organization (they do alot of anti-terrorism consulting..they're big US governement contract think tank) I don't know if their analysis and access to data would be up to par as the gov't agency, which is associated with well established biostaticians and active prinicipal investigators . At the end of the day, it depends on who's data/interpretation you want to look at, but most studies agree that users of marijuana (as well as heavy users of alcohol) are more inclined to "try" and/or "use" illicit drugs of abuse.

[doG]

Nope not weak at all, according to Samhsa, national survey of drug use and health, there is a very strong correlation between users of marijuana and willingness to try other drugs.

Look at it from another point of view. There is a group that consists of, well, everybody. In that group are two groups, those willing to try marijuana and those that aren't. Now just because some that are willing to try marijuana will try other drugs too does not mean they are willing to try those other drugs just because they tried marijuana in the first place. They are simply in the group that were willing to try any drug in the first place vs those not willing to try any drugs in the first place. That's the fault of their mentality, not marijuana. The only thing that makes marijuana a gateway drug for them is that it was the first drug they tried. Had they tried heroin first then it would be their gateway drug.

[silkworm]

Look at it from another point of view. There is a group that consists of, well, everybody. In that group are two groups, those willing to try marijuana and those that aren't. Now just because some that are willing to try marijuana will try other drugs too does not mean they are willing to try those other drugs just because they tried marijuana in the first place. They are simply in the group that were willing to try any drug in the first place vs those not willing to try any drugs in the first place. That's the fault of their mentality, not marijuana. The only thing that makes marijuana a gateway drug for them is that it was the first drug they tried. Had they tried heroin first then it would be their gateway drug.

 

 

Also, via personal experience, about half the people I know who habitually do the hard drugs - like meth, coke, LSD, etc. - don't smoke marijuana at all. And I know more than a few who did do hard drugs and have been hospitalized/institutionalized for it smoke marijuana to stay relatively sober.

[scicop]

Look at it from another point of view. There is a group that consists of, well, everybody. In that group are two groups, those willing to try marijuana and those that aren't. Now just because some that are willing to try marijuana will try other drugs too does not mean they are willing to try those other drugs just because they tried marijuana in the first place. They are simply in the group that were willing to try any drug in the first place vs those not willing to try any drugs in the first place. That's the fault of their mentality, not marijuana. The only thing that makes marijuana a gateway drug for them is that it was the first drug they tried. Had they tried heroin first then it would be their gateway drug.

 

There is no other point of view, what you just wrote is of NO SCIENTIFIC value. The studies by SAMHSA (as well as NIDA) assess the propensity of marijuana users to try/abuse other illicit drugs. Furthmore their studies assess the drug habits of users of other drugs of abuse, such as heroin and cocaine. These studies include direct surveys (an extrapolation of survey data..but I don't expect many to understand what that means), as well as data obtained from treatment centers around the US (i.e. drug treatment clinics etc).

 

The observation that there is a strong association between use of marijuana and the incidence of using/abusing other drugs of abuse (among teenages and adults) is supportive of the conclusion that marijuana can be a gateway drug. (now read this sentance again, and you'll see this is how scientist write). These conclusion is corroborated by studies in the laboratory that demonstrate the ability of THC (an active compound in marijuana) to sensitize or rather promote neuroadaptive responses, such that exposure to more addictive drugs (i.e. drugs that really excite on VTA DA neurons/dopamine release in NuAcc) can more easily precipitate behaviors indicative of addiction (i.e. drug seeking, and uncontrolled consumption of harmful amount of drugs).

So the data is outthere, please LOOK AT IT and READ!

 

Also, yeah I known some drug users in the past, everyone has their choice and not all marijuana users will try other drugs....likewise not all heroin or cocaine users will abuse marijuana. It is essential that one considers the heterogeneity in said population with respect to genetic, environmental, pyschological and social environments.

 

No one study (read my beautiful sentance above) can say 'marijuana is a gateway drug", That would be incorrect to say. But a true scientist, versed in science writing would write: "the data does support that marijuana CAN BE a gateway drug to more addictive illicit drugs of abuse" And this is what the data supports.

 

I've given some excellent references to refer to...again..KREEK, KOOB, NESTLER, SWIFT, O'BRIAN...BIG names in addiction biology.(and RENOUNED Neuroscientist)...read their work!!!!

 

If you want to read more about the molecular target and workings of marijuana, please read work by Ken MacKie MD (U.Washington), a former colleague of mine and great person to collaborate with!!! He does not hesisitate to send you CB1-antibodies or cDNA for the receptor(s) for your experiments!!!

 

Also..go through the NIDA and SAMHSA websites, download their studies!!! They are FREE to download!!! and they're even in PDF formats!!

[doG]

There is no other point of view, what you just wrote is of NO SCIENTIFIC value. The studies by SAMHSA (as well as NIDA) assess the propensity of marijuana users to try/abuse other illicit drugs. ..

You're still missing the point. Marijuana users are all users that were willing to try drugs in the first place vs people that aren't willing to try any drugs. Where is the comparison of marijuana users vs people that aren't willing to try any drugs?

[scicop]

You're still missing the point. Marijuana users are all users that were willing to try drugs in the first place vs people that aren't willing to try any drugs. Where is the comparison of marijuana users vs people that aren't willing to try any drugs?

 

I think you mean of people who are not currenly abusing any drugs, would they try do so...yeah..thats been done and its in the surveys. There is a high correalation of people who do use marijuana to abuse other drugs compared to those who are "currently..aka time of survey" who are not using.

 

You'll find all of this on the Samhsa website.

Again..Rand..its your choice who you want to go with, but I personally don't think they would be as thorough as the gov't agencies (or rather intellectual abilitiy) put together.

[doG]

I think you mean of people who are not currenly abusing any drugs..

No, i mean people that are not and have not used any illicit drugs vs those that have. There is a whole group of people out there that have never and will never use any illicit drugs for one reason or another......

[scicop]

yeah..the data is there! READ!!!!!!!!!!!

[ecoli]

yeah..the data is there! READ!!!!!!!!!!!

 

The point it, that if marijuana was legal, you wouldn't have to get it from street dealers. Those street dealers often sell other drugs, or are in proximity to those selling other drugs.

 

People who smoke marijuana may be more disposed to trying other illegal drugs, because they have essentially already gotten over the fact that they are doing something illegal and potentially harmful. You see my point?

[scicop]

that's a great point! environmental and psychology do go hand in hand.

 

Now, heres another point...the same is true for nicotine (cigarettes)! People who smoke are more likely to try the harder stuff than those who don't.

 

So one question that has always bothered me is why our sometimes hippocrite govn't deems cigarettes as legal and marijuana as illegal? Even when top PIs feel classify nicotine as a drug as abuse? (seminar I attended last year given by Noura Volkov, head of NIDA, at a narcotic research conference).

 

I know the social and historal story of marijuana..(bassically summarized by a bad rap by racist US congressman) and the social acceptance of nicotine use, but scientifically speaking...and strickly scientifically speaking, I really do not get how the govt can differentiate between making "pot" illegal, and making alcohol "legal" or cigarettes for that matter..legal.

 

Now, ok..alcohol if you drink to much and lets say operate a vehicle..then of course..you go to jail. So, what I don't get is why can't govt say...."OK

were going to make MJ Legal..but if you drive or operate machinary, or do anything reckless under the influence of MJ then strait to jail you go!

 

For the record, I am not an anti-marijuana person.

[doG]

yeah..the data is there! READ!!!!!!!!!!!

Huh? You're saying they have actually studies how likely non-drug users are to try harder drugs when they DON'T USE ANY DRUGS to begin with? I find that a little difficult to believe.

[scicop]

alot of surveys are randomized, not directly specific to users or non users, whereas others only look within a "user" population.

 

Again please read the methods section of some of these studies. Understanding the methods section of any scientific study is essential to not only understanding the data but also considering the implications of such data.

 

I should stress that this is essential for not only surveys, but just regular scientific papers....sometimes you have to read the methods to understand the data. If you go to graduate school...this is one of the first things you will learn!

[doG]

alot of surveys are randomized' date=' not directly specific to users or non users, whereas others only look within a "user" population.

 

Again please read the methods section of some of these studies. Understanding the methods section of any scientific study is essential to not only understanding the data but also considering the implications of such data.

 

I should stress that this is essential for not only surveys, but just regular scientific papers....sometimes you have to read the methods to understand the data. If you go to graduate school...this is one of the first things you will learn![/quote']

I've read them and they don't address my point. My point was simply that marijuana users are already in a group that is willing to risk experimentation with illicit drugs compared to the group of people that would never use drugs at all. The fact that these users would try marijuana in the first place already makes them at risk to try other drugs. I don't see them as all that different from kids huffing canned air or Pam cooking spray. Once they've tried it and decided that they like it then they're looking for something else to try. To this extent I see all first drugs as a gateway to further drugs, more so because of the personality that led the user to try a drug in the first plave than the drug tried itself.

[scicop]

I've read them and they don't address my point. My point was simply that marijuana users are already in a group that is willing to risk experimentation with illicit drugs compared to the group of people that would never use drugs at all. The fact that these users would try marijuana in the first place already makes them at risk to try other drugs. I don't see them as all that different from kids huffing canned air or Pam cooking spray. Once they've tried it and decided that they like it then they're looking for something else to try. To this extent I see all first drugs as a gateway to further drugs, more so because of the personality that led the user to try a drug in the first plave than the drug tried itself.

 

Well yes, but also remember that "personality" or rather contributing factors that promote the willingess to move to other drugs may also include genetic (such as certain gene alleles or polymorphisms that are associated with susceptability to addiction, such as the OPRM/or V2 receptors..see work by Marc Schukit MD, Gavril Pasternak, PhD), environmental (see work by Bill R Miller, PhD), as well as pyschological (neurochemical imbalance, see work by George Koob and Eric Nestler) disposition (see studies linking depression, schizo, bipolarism to drug abuse). So you're absolutely right, but the reason we think this is intuitive is because we have studies like these that directly address this relationship. Without these studies, any talk or speculation is just warm air.

 

You seem to like this topic, if you do a PhD definately consider Ken MacKie's lab at U.Wash..you'll have alot of fun.

[Teotihuacan]

A recent study in rats shows that teenagers who use marijuana may be more vulnerable to heroin addiction later in life' date=' substantiating claims that marijuana really is a "gateway" drug.

 

The test gave six rats doses of THC, the active ingredient in marijuana, every three days, equivalent to smoking about one joint every three days. After the trial period was over, catheters were inserted in those rats and the control group, and the rats were allowed to press a lever to deliver heroin into their system. Those who had previously used THC were found to use more heroin daily, as the researchers believe the THC use affected their brain chemistry and actually lowered their sensitivity to opioids - requiring them to use more heroin to get a high.

 

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn9488[/quote']

 

Teenagers could care less about gateway drugs. Every teenager is completely invulnerable, especially over anything that might happen "next week". This is not a reason.

 

The naievete of the researchers is apparent, if they think that the process of addiction has a single entry point. Addiction is in the person, not the drug. NA has known that for more than 50 years. And still is the most effective program for recovering addicts - learning to live & enjoy life, without the use of drugs.

 

But again, most teenagers don't apply. Nor should they. Only about 10% of those already using drugs are addicted, and most of those inherited the predilection. Besides, as already noted, teenagers don't avoid what "could become". Those levels of abstraction are only starting to develope.

 

But, hidden in the mistakes of this study is at least one "reason". Actually it's probably the reason the rats initially took more heroin... a physical property of THC. It's phospholipid. Quickly absorbed in fatty tissue. In fact, marijuana has the longest half-life of any known drug... a usual withdrawal curve of approx. 31 days, depending on BMI.

 

Considering that there was only 3 days between these massive doses (consider the weight ratio of 100::1) the rats body tissue would soon be saturated to possibly 10x the daily average. Since each neuron has a protective sheath of fat, then all the affected rat's nervous system would be clogged with THC and impairing neural function, requiring overwhelming stimulii... such as more "hits" on the heroine space bar.

 

The kids are familiar with this phenomenon among their peers. They call it "burnout". They are unaware of the mechanics of it, and therefore don't realize how much it affects learning. Not only in the case of misfiring nerve endings, but in state induced learning as well. THC is long in the body, after the acute effects of being "stoned" have passed. Months later, the student may remember the day that lesson was taught, but not be able to recall any of the content. Falling grades has long been an indicator of marijuana abuse, for this precise reason. And most users are unaware that it is happening.

 

Teenagers do a lot of new things. Adults, on the other hand, tend to do the same things over & over. Learning is far more important for them.

 

And, while I'm at it, the phospholipid properties of THC clog other vital organs too. Many chronic users have a lowered immune system, there's sexual dysfunction, and yes, delayed growth because of interference with natural hormone production. The amotivational syndrome (as above) and the consequent loss of social mobility.

 

So... my vote that teenagers should avoid marijuana is based on a single physical property of the substance and how that interferes with the "normal" transition from child to adult. Developing in their own course. Finding their own potential.

 

The number 1 reason, teenagers "try" marijuana now is as rite of passage - trying to do what they see adults do. It's not an act of rebellion, or gateway, at all. It's wanting to grow up.