Why teenagers should avoid marijuana

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Go read the article. The rats were not saturated with 10x the daily average; the doses of THC were equivalent to smoking one (1) joint every few days. They were not "massive doses."

[scicop]

Teenagers could care less about gateway drugs. Every teenager is completely invulnerable' date=' especially over anything that might happen "next week". This is not a reason.

 

The naievete of the researchers is apparent, if they think that the process of addiction has a single entry point. Addiction is in the person, not the drug. NA has known that for more than 50 years. And still is the most effective program for recovering addicts - learning to live & enjoy life, without the use of drugs.

 

But again, most teenagers don't apply. Nor should they. Only about 10% of those already using drugs are addicted, and most of those inherited the predilection. Besides, as already noted, teenagers don't avoid what "could become". Those levels of abstraction are only starting to develope.

 

But, hidden in the mistakes of this study is at least one "reason". Actually it's probably the reason the rats initially took more heroin... a physical property of THC. It's phospholipid. Quickly absorbed in fatty tissue. In fact, marijuana has the longest half-life of any known drug... a usual withdrawal curve of approx. 31 days, depending on BMI.

 

Considering that there was only 3 days between these massive doses (consider the weight ratio of 100::1) the rats body tissue would soon be saturated to possibly 10x the daily average. Since each neuron has a protective sheath of fat, then all the affected rat's nervous system would be clogged with THC and impairing neural function, requiring overwhelming stimulii... such as more "hits" on the heroine space bar.

 

The kids are familiar with this phenomenon among their peers. They call it "burnout". They are unaware of the mechanics of it, and therefore don't realize how much it affects learning. Not only in the case of misfiring nerve endings, but in state induced learning as well. THC is long in the body, after the acute effects of being "stoned" have passed. Months later, the student may remember the day that lesson was taught, but not be able to recall any of the content. Falling grades has long been an indicator of marijuana abuse, for this precise reason. And most users are unaware that it is happening.

 

Teenagers do a lot of new things. Adults, on the other hand, tend to do the same things over & over. Learning is far more important for them.

 

And, while I'm at it, the phospholipid properties of THC clog other vital organs too. Many chronic users have a lowered immune system, there's sexual dysfunction, and yes, delayed growth because of interference with natural hormone production. The amotivational syndrome (as above) and the consequent loss of social mobility.

 

So... my vote that teenagers should avoid marijuana is based on a single physical property of the substance and how that interferes with the "normal" transition from child to adult. Developing in their own course. Finding their own potential.

 

The number 1 reason, teenagers "try" marijuana now is as rite of passage - trying to do what they see adults do. It's not an act of rebellion, or gateway, at all. It's wanting to grow up.[/quote']

 

Teo, you know not what you talk about!

First I want to recap the original posting..its a little misleading. The authors used "adolesent" rats at an age (around 28-49 days post partum) as a means of gaging or translating the effects to a "teenage" senario. The reason scientist due studies in adolesent rats is because of the differentiating hormonal environment during this period. Scientist ask the question ...what is the effect of .....blah blah....during the peroid of hormonal changes seen in adolesences. This is an important questions, as pre-clinical drug approval processes often wish to see such data!!! The thought is similar to investigating drugs in both men and women, or with diverse ethinicities. NDAs and INDs submitted to the FDA without this information will be automatically rejected..and before you even get to an NDA, you won't get a grant if this data is not provided.

 

Second as Capt said, these were not massive doses and no saturation of any sort was achieved. The dose they were using was 1.5mg/kg, at 3 day intervals, not very high! (if you want to talk high, then lets talk 10mg/kg see work by D Parolaro et al)

 

So let me explain to you a little about the study. The nature of the study was a "choronic" study, they wanted to see the effect of continued exposure to THC (or since I'm a pharmacologist by up bringing, I will say CB1 agonist). Whereas there can be sequestration of CB1 agonist in tissue, its partition coefficient is not totally on the lipophilc sides. There is more than enough will get to the sites of action in the brain very quickly. At the doses they were using, the effects of sequestration is a non-issue. Over the course of the study (apx 20 days) the plasma levels of THC is that of a spiking curve. This means that during the 20 day period (THC administered every 3 days) there were 6 cycling events. That means the plasma levels spiked and dropped 6 times. This is what they are looking for, the were trying to experimentally mimic a "chronic exposure" paradigm. What important is the site of action, the CB1 receptor. This means the CB1 was chronically activated..(ok...I have to becareful here..CB1 is consitutively active..the agonist pushes it to a more active state). Even if it is "sequestered" in fatty tissue (notice i did not say saturated..saturated is terms of pharmacology is when you have a receptor occupancy of 100%..but I dont expect you to get that). The release will still activate CB1 in the brain and in the perifery (at CB1 receptors that mediate fatty metabolism as well as the other CB receptor..CB2, in the perifery, this is where you get your immunological responses you mentioned before).

 

The take home message is that the authors, through their behavioral assays were looking at the effect of centrally activated CB1 receptors in adolescent rats on the self-administration of heroin, as a means to understand the impact of THC exposure on independantly controlled opioid intake.

 

You mentioned "my vote that teenagers should avoid marijuana is based on a single physical property of the substance and how that interferes with the "normal" transition from child to adult".

 

That is wrong!! The property is that it activates the CB1 receptor (which is expressed all over the brain (see work by S.R. Childers, Ph.D.) including the circuitry associated with drug reward and addiction (see work by V.M. Pickel, Ph.D.)

 

The issue of memory you brought up has to do with the function of CB1 in the endogenous setting (something called dopolarization induced suppression of inhibition (DSI) or excitation (DSE)) in areas of the brain associated with memory processing (hippocampus) (see works by Carl R. Lupica, Ph.D. and Tamas Fruend, Ph.D.) Not because of the physical property..or lipophilic nature of the drug.

 

Remember the drug as NO effect unless its directly interacting (thus activating) the CB1 cannabinoid receptor.

 

 

So forget about your "clogging" of vital organs and so on..you'll be laughed at by the scienist in the field....such as me..an ex-scientist from the field. Please read the paper and bring you understanding up to speed please!!

 

The problem with the New Scientist website is that it does bring science down to the layman..but alot of scientific thought is lost and for the general public that does not understand how experiments are done or basic receptor pharmacology, there can be mis-interpreations....just like Teos!!!

 

Again..read some reviews by Ken Mackie, M.D., Raphael Mechoulam, Ph.D. (first to isolate THC and endogenous CB1 ligands), and AC Howlett, Ph.D. (first to clone the CB1 receptor) and science magazine had a great review of CB1 action in the January 26th 2006 issue. (Volume 311, Pages 322-325).

[walrusman]

http://oas.samhsa.gov/nsduh.htm

 

Nope not weak at all' date=' according to Samhsa, national survey of drug use and health, there is a very strong correlation between users of marijuana and willingness to try other drugs.

 

[/quote']

 

 

Well duh... If you're willing to try marijuana, then you're obviously the type of person to try other drugs too. I've noticed that most people against marijuana are people who have never done it. They use words like "hallucinogen" and they lump it in the same category as acid and cocaine.

 

Maybe scientifically, under the proverbial microscope, that may be the case. But as an experienced user, marijuana does not cause hallucinations and it's far safer and a more mild intoxication than alcohol, cocaine, meth, acid..all of them.

 

I guess there's more science than I've given it credit, but I always thought that was silly to label marijuana as the gateway drug. Alcohol has always seemed to be the gateway drug. I don't know anybody that didn't drink alcohol in some manner before doing some pot.

 

I also don't know why anyone would expect a person who's never done any drugs to jump right in to the hard stuff. That's silly. Of course they're going to try the easiest first. Whatever is the easiest and mildest is going to be called the gateway drug.

[scicop]

Well duh... If you're willing to try marijuana' date=' then you're obviously the type of person to try other drugs too. I've noticed that most people against marijuana are people who have never done it. They use words like "hallucinogen" and they lump it in the same category as acid and cocaine.

 

Maybe scientifically, under the proverbial microscope, that may be the case. But as an experienced user, marijuana does not cause hallucinations and it's far safer and a more mild intoxication than alcohol, cocaine, meth, acid..all of them.

 

I guess there's more science than I've given it credit, but I always thought that was silly to label marijuana as the gateway drug. Alcohol has always seemed to be the gateway drug. I don't know anybody that didn't drink alcohol in some manner before doing some pot.

 

I also don't know why anyone would expect a person who's never done any drugs to jump right in to the hard stuff. That's silly. Of course they're going to try the easiest first. Whatever is the easiest and mildest is going to be called the gateway drug.[/quote']

 

I AGREE WITH YOU 100%, but we do need science to really test the hypothesis or suggest the notion of a "gateway" drug don't we. Heresay is not sufficent.

 

I think, due to its past, the use of marijuana derived compounds in the clinic (not necessarily marijuana itself) has been hampered. Its really an effective analgesic, perhaps more than morphine, and its not associated the bad side effects of morphine (constapation, respiratory depression etc). In fact, in the post-operative setting some of the side effects can out way the pyschoactive effects such as compulsion to eat food!

 

In the terminal stages of Cancer, I say..smoke up!!! Furthermore, I've said before, I'm not against legalzing the stuff! Jeez..if alcohol and tobacco are legal..then..lets bring in the weed!!

 

cocaine no. heroin no. LSD no. them drugs are just messed up.

 

I think we're getting there and progress has definately been made in getting some great "marijuana" derived compound to the clinic. Keep an eye on Organan, they have some CB1 agonist in their pain and anasthesia pipeline!

[Heretic]

Cap'n' date=' everybody knows rats are junkies.

 

I don't know how social rats are, but there is a similar study in cocaine use in chimps. The chimps were strapped to a machine that had a button that would give them a dose of coke whenever they hit it. All the chimps loved it and would hit the button over and over and over again, with one exception, the alpha male, who hit it once or twice to check it out and then lost interest. I'm sure if they switched the drug to heroin, I'm sure they'd get the same result, the alpha checking it out but not that interested and the other chimps as fiends.

 

[/quote']

 

I'm going to have to call you on that one... that is a study I've read. The thing about the study that was fascinating was it was the ALPHA MALE who was an addict. The scientists doing the study found this interesting because they had hypothesized that it would be a subordinate or loner chimp that would become the junkie. They were unsure whether or not this was related to the fact he was hording a rare resource (so to speak) or whether being an Alpha Male makes you more prone to drug use.

 

Generally speaking if you look in ANY HIGHSCHOOL you'll find an exact parrallel to this study, as most alpha males are the ones using the drugs, while the loners and geeks tend to avoid them.

[SmallIsPower]

With studies involving only people, you can't be sure whether it's the pot causing them to use harder drugs, or the rebelion from norms that drove them to pot will drive them to other drugs or peer pressure. I suspect that teaching people how dangerous hard drugs are (Meth Heroin, and coke). I was never tempted, because my 6th grade teacher read a poem called "King Heroin", which is about Herion becoming someone's God. Not for me, no, no no at age 12, and no,no,no when I reach 70. I was never tempted to smoke, because I'd constantly hear my mom always complaining she couldn't quit.

 

The bigger threat as far as drug addicted kids is concernered is the number of 2 wage earners. Most mothers don't have enough time to warn kids about the media, or drug dealers.

[Esas719]

I am 16, I smoke like a chimney, and I've been dealing for about two years. You want to know why it's a gateway drug? It's because it isn't legal. The ignorance passed down from generation to generation is disgusting. Every dealer I have ever come in contact with does not only sell marijuana. The reason for this is because it's not exactly that profitable. At least not comparatively. You can make a large amount of money from it, but the fact is almost every other drug can get you more, such as LSD or generic pills.

People worry about this drug, but if they worried about whats around it much more could get done. You want kids to stop "abusing" drugs? Start with all the adderall they sell to their friends during exam times at school. It was without a doubt the most used drug in the school at the time. But I digress, and so to return to the point, LSD can easily yield a 200 to 300 percent profit. I do not personally handle it, but my best friend does. As a side note, I'd like to add that Robert Kennedy is a bastard for making the LSD laws the way he did. The disgusting propaganda put out by this government makes me want to vomit. Mushrooms can hold a large profit as well, while marijuana (of course depending where you live) usually only gives about 125 percent back.

I have yet to slow down. I smoke about 3 grams a day give or take a few in either direction depending on what I have to do that day. My schoolwork has still been kept in 100 percent order and my friend and family life still in absolutely perfect shape. My parents know I smoke, and they do not care. Drugs do not cause people to **** up. People cause themselves to, just look at alcoholics. If you can keep up with it such as myself, then it shouldn't be a problem.

It needs to be legalized. Just to give you an idea, recent studies estimate the trade of marijuana in this country at around 35 billion dollars a year. If you collected money for a few years at that rate you could tare down every school, hospital and place of religious worship in this country and rebuild it. Above all, you will kill the gateway effect. Not completely, but I know that if it were to be legalized I would not know a single drug dealer right now, nor would I be one. What the hell are they waiting for?!

People just need to be informed. I should be sitting here with crystals in my spine, holes in my brain, and a vast array of medical problems. None of the things previously mentioned apply. Stop letting people tell you shit like this.

In a special address to the original poster: Rats? Heroin? Rat-Gateways? How are you going to sit there and tell someone a study like that. Do rats even react to THC in the same way a human brain does? Do they have the receptors? Are you an idiot? Did you just degrade me to a rat? Hello, I am right here. If you want to know if its a gateway drug just ask. I can tell you why it is or isn't for ever situation.. A rat? Jesus.

[Esas719]

Edit: To respond to the poster above.

 

Listen, mothers do not have to tell their kids this information. They probably should, but its not absolutely necessary. That, and they are probably old, ignorant, and misinformed anyways. The school system should be taking care of this. All they would have to do is tell the truth and still they don't. Bastards.

[Rexus]

Esas719, no matter how much you'd like to flip-flop it, marijuana is not going to change its toxicity. Hundreds of poisonous chemicals are injected into your body, lots of which are damaging to your brain. You're 16: wait till you're 30. And really, stop moaning about it just cause you're not selling as much as you'd like.

[ecoli]

Esas719, no matter how much you'd like to flip-flop it, marijuana is not going to change its toxicity.

 

That's not true at all. Marijuana growers can create more potent marijuana plants via breeding and direct GMOs.