New Middle Eastern War

[padren]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/14/mideast/index.html

 

I was pretty blown away and didn't see this coming at all. Do you think we'll get sucked into a larger war now with Syria, Lebonon and Iran?

 

I am more than a little nervous this could get out of control.

[ecoli]

I wish I had more time to comment on this, but I'm just running out the door.

 

As many of you know, the Israel/palestinian conflict is a very important issue for me. In fact, my mother is currently in Israel, so I'm rather nervous for her safety ATM. But, I'll be sure to come back here to express my opinion on the matter.

[Bettina]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/WORLD/meast/07/14/mideast/index.html

 

I was pretty blown away and didn't see this coming at all. Do you think we'll get sucked into a larger war now with Syria' date=' Lebonon and Iran?

 

I am more than a little nervous this could get out of control.[/quote']

 

If you mean the United States I don't think so at all. Israel is fully capable of defending itself and defending itself is exactly what its doing. How long Israel would put up with their shopping malls, busses, and cars being bombed by terrorists living in Lebanon, Palestine, and Syria has just been answered.

 

Peaceful people and terrorists cannot coexist. Never, ever. Evil needs to be rooted out and destroyed and I'm dismayed at the number of countries that turn a blind eye to it.

 

Bee

[ecoli]

If you mean the United States I don't think so at all. Israel is fully capable of defending itself and defending itself is exactly what its doing. How long Israel would put up with their shopping malls, busses, and cars being bombed by terrorists living in Lebanon, Palestine, and Syria has just been answered.

 

Not merely living... many of the governments of these countries are sponsering terrorism. Hence, the IDF attacking airports and other targets within the country.

[blackhole123]

I have a question. Didnt the land that Israel is in now originally belong to the Arabs? I dont know much about this so correct me if im wrong, but wasnt that land taken from the Arabs after World War II by the UN? If so, i can kind of see why they would want to attack Israel. Im am not saying that the terrorists are right but that kind of was their land (I think).

[bascule]

I have a question. Didnt the land that Israel is in now originally belong to the Arabs? I dont know much about this so correct me if im wrong, but wasnt that land taken from the Arabs after World War II by the UN? If so, i can kind of see why they would want to attack Israel. Im am not[/i'] saying that the terrorists are right but that kind of was their land (I think).

 

That's pretty much the case. Over a decade later, they would fight the Six-Day War against Syria, Jordan, Iraq, and Egypt, and win.

 

US military aid to Israel is also considered one of the motivating factors of anti-American sentiment in Islamic countries. Personally, I think we should end it.

[blackhole123]

Well, it doesnt justify what they are doing but I can kind of see why they would hate the Jews.

[john5746]

Well, it doesnt justify what they are doing but I can kind of see why they would hate the Jews.

 

And the Native Indians and African Americans might hate whites, everybody hate the Brits, etc. So, they can either go around blowing themselves up, or try to use what they have.

[padren]

It seems everyone has every reason to hate everyone else and feel safer if everyone else were dead.

 

Ironically, if people actually just chose to all stop killing each other, the vast majority of the world's problems would be over and everyone would have a much better life. Not saying it because I think flower power is all that, but I can't help but to find the irony about as cutting as any in the world.

[blackhole123]

And the Native Indians and African Americans might hate whites, everybody hate the Brits, etc. So, they can either go around blowing themselves up, or try to use what they have.

 

So that means we can go around and take people's land and expect them to not retalliate and not hold a grudge?

[Pangloss]

The land did not originally belong to the Arabs. We have no idea who it originally belonged to. The Jews have as valid a case for ownership as the Arabs. The idea that we can set an arbitrary starting point, and place that one ahead of another claim, is pretty ludicrous in a land that has probably been utilized by various migrating ethnic groups for hundreds of thousands of years.

[Pangloss]

I think the media is missing the true significance of what's taking place here. The question of whether the conflict will spread to a larger scale is interesting, I agree, but what's more interesting to me is the fact that this event appears to have been specifically designed to escalate.

 

Hezbollah leaders don't take a leak without consulting their foreign purse-string holders, who surely approved, and perhaps even ordered, the attack/kidnapping that started this affair. And these alien puppet masters, who are not even Arabs have absolutely everything to gain, and virtually nothing to lose from what's happening. Tom Clancy could not have scripted this extraordinary example of Machiavellian intrigue better.

 

Who am I talking about?

[bascule]

The land did not originally[/i'] belong to the Arabs.

 

I believe he was using "originally" in the sense of "before the UN took it"

[ecoli]

I believe he was using "originally" in the sense of "before the UN took it"

 

In the case, the land was a British colony, who allowed Jews and Arabs to settle on the land before the state of Israel was created. The British allowed the UN to create an Israeli state. In 1948, another state was proposed right along side Israel, known as Palestine. The palestinian leaders rejected this idea, calling for 'all or nothing.'

 

For an in-depth history, click here: http://www.eretzyisroel.org/~jkatz/

[FreeThinker]

I have not made up my mind about the issue. One Israeli solider was kidnapped, so they bomb a whole country. Lets not forget that just a few weeks ago the Israelis fired at the beach of Palestine killing innocent civilians. It is not justified to put the blame solely on the Arabs , Israel has much to answer for themselves.

 

I do not want to see this escalate. But if Israel continues their attacks , I see no other alternative for the Arabs.

[ecoli]

I have not made up my mind about the issue. One Israeli solider was kidnapped, so they bomb a whole country.

That country has been harboring terrorists for decades. Israeli response was not due to just one action, but to Hezbollah, in general. Whether or not ISraeli response was appropriate or not, however, I cannot say.

 

Lets not forget that just a few weeks ago the Israelis fired at the beach of Palestine killing innocent civilians.

Purely by accident. The IDF apologized and provided excellent hospital care for the injured... it doesn't make it ok, but it shows the Israeli's were not trying to harm civilians intentionally.

 

Similiarly, the IDF dropped leaflets in Lebanon, urging civilians to leave dangerous areas. They have nothing against civilians.

 

It is not justified to put the blame solely on the Arabs , Israel has much to answer for themselves.

 

This is true. I often feel that Israel's actions seem bigger then what's called for. But, I suppose that they feel that the security of their people is at risk.

 

For example, what if we knew that the terrorists who bombed the WTC were being habored in Canada... and that their group had ties to the Canadian government, no less. The US would deploy the military, no questions asked.

 

Not a perfect analogy, but you get the idea.

 

I do not want to see this escalate. But if Israel continues their attacks , I see no other alternative for the Arabs.

 

The alternative for Arab nations is to stop supporting terrorist organizations that want to destroy Israel.

 

 

By the way, I'm suggesting that everyone use this news source for info: http://www.haaretz.com/

 

It's an Israeli newspaper, but they are notoriously impartial.

[FreeThinker]

That country has been harboring terrorists for decades. Israeli response was not due to just one action, but to Hezbollah, in general. Whether or not Israeli response was appropriate or not, however, I cannot say.

 

Are they going to challenge the Israeli military? Of course not. Israels army would walk all over the Lebanese, or Palestinian, army. However, by 'harboring terrorists' they can still put up a fight. I am not defending the terrorists, I am just being realistic.

 

 

Purely by accident. The IDF apologized and provided excellent hospital care for the injured... it doesn't make it OK, but it shows the Israeli's were not trying to harm civilians intentionally.

 

Both of us know that this is a witness-less case. Isreal will say it was by accident with the opposite side claiming the alternative. How would America react if North Korea "accidentally" launched a nuclear bomb on an American city?

 

Similiarly, the IDF dropped leaflets in Lebanon, urging civilians to leave dangerous areas. They have nothing against civilians.

 

How long did they have to leave? Where would they go. Common, be realistic.

 

 

Both sides, the Israeli and Arabs, have been raised to hate the other side. One has an overwhelming army, the other has its terrorist tactics. Kidnapping a soldier is one thing, bombing an international airport, is another. Hardcore fundamentalism on both sides , if you ask me.

[ecoli]

Are they going to challenge the Israeli military? Of course not. Israels army would walk all over the Lebanese, or Palestinian, army. However, by 'harboring terrorists' they can still put up a fight. I am not defending the terrorists, I am just being realistic.

 

The only reason why the IDF is attacking Lebanon is BECAUSE they are harboring terrorists.

 

But, I'm sure what you said is what the terrorists and Lebanese are thinking.

 

Both of us know that this is a witness-less case. Isreal will say it was by accident with the opposite side claiming the alternative. How would America react if North Korea "accidentally" launched a nuclear bomb on a American city?

 

That's a poor comparison. Accidently open firing on people who could concievably be mistaken as terrorists makes sense.

 

Accidently launching a nuclear missle is Hollywood.

 

How long did they have to leave? Where would they go. Common, be realistic.

I actually read an article that said where a lot of them went. But, of course, I can't find the link now.

 

Both sides, the Israeli and Arabs, have been raised to hate the other side.

I can only speak for the Israeli's I've met, but I've never met one thats hated a Palestinian. (I'm not saying they don't exist, of course).

 

But, here's an interesting article written by a Palestinian woman: We were taught how to hate, and we do.

 

One has an overwhelming army, the other has its terrorist tactics. Kidnapping a soldier is one thing, bombing an international airport, is another. Hardcore fundamentalism on both sides , if you ask me.

 

I've told you, it wasn't just one event that started this. Hezbollah has been launching rockets into northern Israel for years. Injuring and sometimes killing it's people... yet the Lebanese gov't did nothing.

 

the IAF was insuring that installation commonly used by terrorists would be harder to use.

[FreeThinker]

ecoli,

 

I have to go out now. So I have no time for a lengthy discussion. However, in relation to:

 

 

That's a poor comparison. Accidently open firing on people who could concievably be mistaken as terrorists makes sense.

 

I found that really funny. Are you suggesting that the terrorists were on the beach getting some tan so they can look good for the 72 virgins? The people 'attacked' by the Israeli ship were AT THE BEACH WITH THEIR CHILDREN!

[ecoli]

from: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/738671.html

 

Israel believes Hezbollah leader Sheikh Hassan Nasrallah did not intend to ignite such a dramatic escalation when his fighters kidnapped two Israel Defense Forces soldiers and killed eight others on Tuesday.

 

The move was apparently intended return to the spotlight to Hezbollah's campaign for the release of Samir Kuntar, a Lebanese national jailed in Israel for the killing of a Nahariya family.

 

 

Get this... Hezbollah was trying to free a murderer, so they kidnapped two soldiers. Does that seem counter-productive to anyone else?

[ecoli]

I found that really funny. Are you suggesting that the terrorists were on the beach getting some tan so they can look good for the 72 virgins? The people 'attacked' by the Israeli ship were AT THE BEACH WITH THEIR CHILDREN!

 

... or perhaps you could read this article: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0' date=',251-2219379,00.html to get a little more background on the situation.

 

The Israeli military confirmed that its gunboats stationed off the 45km (28-mile) coastal strip had fired “towards” sites where Palestinian militants launch Qassam rockets into Israel, but they insisted that naval and aerial fire was not responsible and that its inquiry was instead focusing on land-based artillery batteries that fire daily from north and east of Gaza.

 

“We regret any harm caused to innocent civilians,” an Israeli Defence Forces spokesman said. “We are offering the Palestinians any help that we can, including providing assistance to reach Israeli hospitals.”

[Severian]

US military aid to Israel is also considered one of the motivating factors of anti-American sentiment in Islamic countries. Personally' date=' I think we should end it.[/quote']

 

Dearie me - what is the world coming to? I actually find myself in agreeing with bascule!

[Pangloss]

It's rather glaringly obvious that deliberately killing civilians is counter to their purpose.

 

The country I was alluding to earlier, the puppet master behind all this, is Iran.

[darkangel199]

Well, i suppose I am also biased to this situation, i have family that lives in Palestine and Lebanon, i have been their many times and i can tell you i understand why they hate Israel and America for that matter. Could you imagine everynight jumping up out of bed because of Sonic booms going off overhead, the Israelis purposely do it all the time. And people know that the jets, the missles, the bullets the tanks, the gunships, the helicopters are American made. Then they say to the people elect a government democratically and they do just for Israel to say "oh, you cant choose them, choose someone else."

 

Many people i know also view it as this, a large, extremely powerful country does whatever it wants because its backed by an even larger, more powerful country that tells it it can. The only thing the people of those small countries have are terrorists, they dont have american made f-16s and Apache helicopters, they dont have Abrams tanks and cruise missles. All they have are the people you al lrefer to as terrorist. That's the problem, in Palestine and places like Lebanaon the "terrorist" are the only ones giving the people food and taking care of the people, its not the U.N., its not the governments of the countries, its these organizations doing it. You call them terrorists, i call them rebels fighting for the right of the people of those countries. It's unfortunate that civilians die, but its war, and it seems as long as Israel says sorry, we didnt mean to bomb that school" its alright with people?

 

And even after israel pulled out of Lebanon they continued exchanging fire on the border all the time, so how they can pull this, like they are the poor innocent country. and how can Americans protect Israel so when they deliberately attacked one of your ships before, http://www.ussliberty.org/ not to mention the numerous times they steal secrets from America all the time. http://www.counterpunch.org/husseini08302004.html

http://www.aci.net/kalliste/pollard_em.htm

 

I understand that people that live in the "empire" will refer to the rebels as terrorist, because to them that's all they see and that's what they are told day in and day out, but try living in Palestine for a year, as a normal person going on your daily business and see if you don't change your views.

[Jim]

It's rather glaringly obvious that deliberately killing civilians is counter to their purpose.

 

Glaringly obvious pretty much sums it up. If Israel wanted to kill civilians it could do a far more effective job.

 

The country I was alluding to earlier, the puppet master behind all this, is Iran.

 

I wonder how all this would play out if Iran had nukes.

 

I understand that people that live in the "empire" will refer to the rebels as terrorist, because to them that's all they see and that's what they are told day in and day out, but try living in Palestine for a year, as a normal person going on your daily business and see if you don't change your views.

 

What would you like to see happen to Israel?

 

What do you perceive as Israel's objective other than to continue to exist?