Vamos a Cuba

[Pangloss]

This has been an interesting story to follow here in South Florida. As you all probably know we have a large community of Cubans, known collectively as the "exiles", who are very sensitive to anything along these lines.

 

Recently it was discovered that schools in Miami-Dade County have a book on their shelves called "Vamos a Cuba". No, it's not an instruction manual about how to leave Cuba on a raft! (But that title sure sounds like it, doesn't it?!) It actually translates as "A Visit to Cuba", and it's about life for people (especially children) in Cuba.

 

It's part of a larger series of children's books about social life in various countries of the world. None of the books take any partisan or ideological views whatsoever -- they could not be more innocuous. But they do portray life in Cuba in a positive light, because the purpose of the series is to show cultural differences, and to reflect what people in that culture consider to be good/positive influences on children. In general the books are reportedly well-though-of, and they are carried on the shelves of many school districts around the country, including Los Angeles and New York City, where apparently nobody has even considered a ban.

 

But since they show life in Cuba in a positive light, the exile community is outraged. And I have to admit, I see their point. I don't really agree with it, but I understand it. I tend to take more of a South Park view on this -- let the kids have this info, and then talk to them about the reality when you (as a parent) think it's appropriate.

 

Anyway, the school board responded to pressure a while back and yanked the book. Shortly thereafter, they yanked all 24 books from the series, in some sort of bizarre fit of hypocrisy-realization. (chuckle)

 

But now a judge has restored the book to the shelves, thanks to a lawsuit brought by the ACLU. Apparently it's just a temporary order, until a full trial can be held. (sigh) (I hate it when my money gets spent like this.)

 

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/southflorida/sfl-0724cubabook,0,606337.story?track=rss

 

Your thoughts?

[walrusman]

Absolutely stupid. When I hear about things like this I wonder why we bother to call this a free country. People don't really want freedom. They want censorship. They want socialism. If you want to be a free country then you have to accept things that you don't like. Like the kkk, the black panthers, cute little books that make China, North Korea, "Cuba" look like disneyland - it's all fair game.

 

Why are people so afraid of freedom?

[Mokele]

IMHO, the books should at least show *some* aspect of reality. However, just because a book sucks for one or more reasons does not mean it should be censored. If that were the case, nobody would have heard of Dickens (sorry, but I *hate* his writing style).

 

Mokele

[Dak]

As long as it's made clear that the books are focusing on only the good aspects, i dont see the problem -- after all, there must be some books knocking about american schools aimed at 4-8 year olds that paint a rose-tinted view of america, without mentioning the bad points, and that doesn't make those books worthless as an educational tool, as long as, at some point, it is pointed out that a less plesant aspect exists (for any country).

 

on the other hand, i suppose i can see their point. I'm just imagining if this was the 1940's, and the book was Wir gehen zu nazi Deutchsland, and was full of happy, smiling arians, and, say, explaining the fun cub-scout-esque aspects of the nazi youth program that 4-8 year olds might attend after going to school, and the nazi's focus on family values, but glossing over the 'not neccesarily being a good place to live if you're a jew, female, gay, etc' aspects.

 

and then the american jews complaining. and then being told to 'stfu, this is a free country'.

 

So yeah, i can see their point, but meh... i still think presenting just the good parts -- espescially given the age range of the books -- is perfectly legit teaching method.

[walrusman]

on the other hand, i suppose i can see their point. I'm just imagining if this was the 1940's, and the book was Wir gehen zu nazi Deutchsland, and was full of happy, smiling arians, and, say, explaining the fun cub-scout-esque aspects of the nazi youth program that 4-8 year olds might attend after going to school, and the nazi's focus on family values, but glossing over the 'not neccesarily being a good place to live if you're a jew, female, gay, etc' aspects.

 

and then the american jews complaining. and then being told to 'stfu, this is a free country'.

 

Yeah I can see their point in being angry - they should be. They should tell everyone they know that it's crap and false. They should also leave it on the bookshelf next to the other racist literature that should be available to everyone. That's called freedom. REAL freedom. Not the fake stuff they're selling here in the states...

[Dak]

The purpose of schools is to educate people as to certain things: Equal rights is one of those things, and leaving 'racist literature' in the school library wouldn't be 'real freedom', it'd be 'bad teaching strategy' (given that the material is antithetical to one of the things on the sylabus).

 

anyhoo, i dont think anyone is claiming that 'vomoos el cuba' is a racist book, just that it glosses over a rather relevant fact, and, presumably, that this is significant enough to justify banning the book.

 

Like i said, i dont really agree. There must be a book in a similar vein, that says 'here in america, we're blah blah blah land of the free blah blah blah fundamental human rights blah blah blah everyone's happy blah blah blah democrasy blah constitution blah school, job, blah blah blah happy-smiling-people blah blah blah entreuponeurism blah blah etc', but mentions nothing of the high homiside rate and gun crime, inherent racism, huge divishion of wealth, etc.

 

that wouldn't make the book bad. it's just that it's trying to teach one thing, and 'the country also sucks in certain ways' isn't one of them.

[walrusman]

The purpose of schools is to educate people as to certain things: Equal rights is one of those things, and leaving 'racist literature' in the school library wouldn't be 'real freedom', it'd be 'bad teaching strategy' (given that the material is antithetical to one of the things on the sylabus).

 

I can't believe I even have to point out what's wrong with this... Leaving racist literature in the school wouldn't be real freedom? Yes it would. And what not a better piece of reference material to have when teaching equal rights and freedom of speach?

 

anyhoo, i dont think anyone is claiming that 'vomoos el cuba' is a racist book, just that it glosses over a rather relevant fact, and, presumably, that this is significant enough to justify banning the book.

 

I wasn't claiming it was racist. I was just trying to make a point that content shouldn't be restricted. Since these are kids, it does change things a little. Although, I think we shield kids too much from the hard truth. Any child over 10 ought to know that there are children in this world suffering real poverty and starvation. They ought to have an idea of what that looks like.

[Mokele]

Well, content should be restricted in one way: it should actually be *quality* material. If my tax dollars are paying for these books, they should go ahead and buy books that are at least accurate.

 

While I agree with free access to information, a part of me worries simply because, well, these are US public school students. Due to the total failure of the educational system, these kids have no clue how to logically reason. They couldn't spot a fallacy if you shoved it up their cloaca sideways. They've been trained to memorize and regurgitate, taking anything written as gospel. If you expose kids to, say, racist literature, they'll just believe it, or reject it for the wrong reasons.

 

How sad is that? That I, who vehemently oppose any and all censorship, am given pause by the fact that people are so unable to perform basic reasoning that they cannot be trusted to do anything but swallow information whole and regurgitate it.

 

IIRC, Thomas Jefferson once said "A people who expect to be ignorant and free expect what cannot be and has never been."

 

Mokele

[walrusman]

Good points...I share your lack of faith in our education system and I would venture to say that the current membership to the kkk or black panthers are probably the evidence to your concern.

[Dak]

I can't believe I even have to point out what's wrong with this... Leaving racist literature in the school wouldn't be real freedom? Yes it would.

 

OK, i worded that a bit badly.

 

What i meant was, the purpose of schools -- at least at this age range -- isn't to expose people to everything and allow them to make up their own minds what to believe, it's to teach them stuff.

 

one of those things is 'equal rights'. given that, putting racist material in schools and letting kids descide wether to accept/reject it on their own would be counter to the schools aims.

 

Note that i'm not saying it should/shouldn't be this way, just that this is the way it is, and it's this way because before people are let loose to descide what to accept or not, it's advisable to teach them HOW to determine what is true/false -- and before they can do that, i think it's a tad dangerous to expose them to racist material that they might accept (like you implied, the kkk etc's membership include alot of people who can't seperate truth from bull)

 

Yes, putting racist material up would be 'real freedom', but it would also be 'bad teaching strategy' given the teaching aims at this age; also, 'real freedom' isn't neccesarily a desireable thing.

 

And what not a better piece of reference material to have when teaching equal rights and freedom of speach?

 

With older kids, i'd agree completely. Certainly, adults should -- and do -- have access to all sorts of racist material, and towards the end of school, a kid should be fully ready to seperate truth from bull, and part of that is exposing them to bull; and also to unpleasant truths, thus quelling any remenants of childhood bull (i.e. that the world is a completely happy-happy-joy-joy place)

 

But bear in mind we're talking 4-8 year olds here. At that age, without the ability to seperate fact from fiction, i don't see why adults shouldn't do it for them.

 

anyway... as to the actual book... the above isn't really directly relevant. it's just a one-sided account, and it seems as if the reason for that is to focus on the learning outcome, vis 'cubans dont suck. theyre just like us; dont be racist kiddies'. nothing wrong with that as such imo.

[walrusman]

'real freedom' isn't neccesarily a desireable thing.

 

Apparently so. Our founding fathers desired it. But the majority of americans have sold it for socialism and political correctness. This paves the way for more effective one sided propaganda. It allows our political system to be hijacked and directed by one power rather than the checks and balances that were built in to the original design.

 

I think we agree on everything else...

[Sisyphus]

Apparently so. Our founding fathers desired it. But the majority of americans have sold it for socialism and political correctness.

 

Maybe if you could define "real freedom," explain how, exactly, the founding fathers desired it, and when we lost it in favor of socialism.

[walrusman]

That would take too long. Look at the law books then and look at them now.

 

Victimless crimes like drugs, prostitution, gambling, suicide - all were free to do. Your rights ended where other people's rights began. Simple and elegant.

 

Somewhere along the line, people decided they have a right to walk down the sidewalk and NOT see a naked boob painted on someone's house. They decided they have a right to take away everybody else's right to say "under god" during the pledge of allegiance. They decided they have a right to NOT have to change the channel when they hear a dirty word, or god forbid yet another naked boob.

 

It's retarded...

[scicop]

I think the books would be of great value to any one who wishes to fully understand Cuban life /history.

 

Its easy for us to look in and say yeah," it must suck to live and grow up in Cuban", and of course that would be a totally outside view.

 

One thing that is remarkable about us humans, is how we can adapt to pretty much any situation. I'm sure the Cuban people had (and still) suffered countless atrosities living under fidels rule, however, people do continue to live their lives and there comes a point when such environment becomes a norm for them, they learn how to live in the environment and in some cases may even find some good and happiness (although very different from how us westerners would perceive good and happiness) Especially parents of kids who grew up in that time and with the newer generations that only know of Fidels rule and current way of life.

 

Wouldn't you as a parent try to bring your kids up to be happy no matter what environment you were in?

 

Another point is, under fidels rule, as time passed, people became isolated from the outside word. Thus, they had to way to compare their situation to an outside reference point. But they continue living.

 

So of course there will be stories, told by those who lived in Cuba of good times and happiness.

 

This is kind of analogous to China under Maos rule, where the chinese people though that under Mao, they were superior to us "capitalist-roaders" in the western world. Again, this is because they had no point of reference to the outside world. Although the chinese suffered, they didn't realize that the were in a bad situation, and in fact many books have been writen that account for how the chinese viewed themselves and their lives during Maos reign. You'll find that they didn't view their lives as horrible at all, in fact, most were HONORED to be serving Mao, especially during the Great Leap (this changed during the cultural revolution)

 

But because we have books that tell of what it really was like to live in China, written by chinese authors who lived during that time, we can appreciate the fully history Maos china from the peoples point of view and not only have the Westerner (outsider) perspective.

 

So, i think those books would be beneficial to the children of "exiles" (as well as the 'exiles" themselves) to have a different and augmented understanding of life in Cuba. There is an education value to those books, to bad others can't see it.

[AL]

I'm surprised the ACLU took the position that this amounts to unconstitutional censorship. While I don't agree with pulling these books in particular as they seem to be fairly harmless, I do think, generally speaking, that this is not unconstitutional censorship and that schools can and should adopt policies conducive to learning and hostile to disruption -- this means doing such things as sending a kid home from school for wearing a t-shirt that says "Deport all Mexicans," even though this person is perfectly constitutionally free to wear such a thing off-campus.

[Pangloss]

I think the ACLU would oppose sending kids home for wearing a t-shirt that says "Deport all Mexicans".

[ecoli]

I feel that if the books just had the pleasant aspects about the country and people, say nothing about the government, then I would say keep them. After all, a country and it's people can be beautiful, despite what it's gov't is doing or has done.

 

The US has done some things I'm not proud of, but you don't see us censoring the good parts just because there has also been bad things.

 

In my opinion, that would be the prejudiced veiw. The Cuban immigrants can, understandably, see only bad things in the country, but that doesn't mean that it's the case.