CPL.Luke Posted July 30, 2006 Posted July 30, 2006 http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060729/ap_on_re_mi_ea/iran_foreign_words The Iranian President issued a decree today banning foreign words that have crept into the language, among the 2000 words to be replaced pizza is being replaced with "elastic loaves". Apparently they are less sensitive to arabic words that have moved into the language as the koran is written in arabic. now if it isn't fascism when the government tries to control what words you can use I don't know what is.
Dak Posted July 30, 2006 Posted July 30, 2006 japan and france have similar attetudes OK, maybe it's fairer to say that japan had a similar attetude -- it has loads of foreighn words in it now.
Severian Posted July 30, 2006 Posted July 30, 2006 OK' date=' maybe it's fairer to say that japan [i']had[/i] a similar attetude -- it has loads of foreighn words in it now. Dak's English seems to have lots of "foreighn" words too. Pass the Freedom Fries...
Pangloss Posted July 31, 2006 Posted July 31, 2006 I wonder if the point here might be just that -- that it is perhaps reasonable for countries to take unusual measures, like having official dictionaries and similar "protectionist" actions with regard to their language or culture, but that when those measures happen under the thumb of a brutal and repressive dictatorship then it becomes something else, even if the actions are exactly the same. The so-called "chilling effect", if you will.
Sisyphus Posted July 31, 2006 Posted July 31, 2006 Yeah, on the one hand, France has enforced strict control over the French language for hundreds of years, and as a result it has changed very little from foreign influence. That's definitely not fascism in itself (although some might call it silly), so I suppose CPL.Luke doesn't know what it is, after all. On the other hand, this might not be exactly the same, inasmuch as Arabic is so closely tied with Islam. After all, the Quran cannot be translated, so what can other languages bring besides Satan? Seems like the move of an oppressive theocracy to me.
Dak Posted July 31, 2006 Posted July 31, 2006 it's not my fault i'm linguistically retarded one example i forgot: british english. we (at least those who 'write the rules') seem to have something against americanisms. which is kinda stoopid when you consider how mongalated the english language is. Bit harsh too. it's like rasism, for words. @pangloss: the flip-side is that maybe it's unreasonable, but seems OK when non-dictatorial countries do it? I can't actually see the point in artificially suppressing a languages development. eg, is the british's attempt to resist americanisms and the iraqis attempt to resist all 'foreign' words ok, but it seems bad when the iraqis do it 'cos they're iraqis... or is it bad, but seems ok when the brits do it 'cos they're brits?
gcol Posted July 31, 2006 Posted July 31, 2006 or is it bad, but seems ok when the brits do it 'cos they're brits? Nah mate, its cos we tinks americanisms is lazyisms, init, know what I mean? Nuf probs over the centuries wiv celtic, norse, anglosaxon, latin, french, dutch, erse, cockney and bangladeshi and some wot ive forgot already. I mean, they wos proper talk to begin wiv, wosn't they. American? Thats rubbish to begin wiv, innit, do us a favour.
walrusman Posted July 31, 2006 Posted July 31, 2006 it's not my fault i'm linguistically retarded one example i forgot: british english. we (at least those who 'write the rules') seem to have something against americanisms. which is kinda stoopid when you consider how mongalated the english language is. Bit harsh too. it's like rasism' date=' for words. @pangloss: the flip-side is that maybe it's unreasonable, but seems OK when non-dictatorial countries do it? I can't actually see the point in artificially suppressing a languages development. eg, is the british's attempt to resist americanisms and the iraqis attempt to resist all 'foreign' words ok, but it seems bad when the iraqis do it 'cos they're iraqis... or is it bad, but seems ok when the brits do it 'cos they're brits?[/quote'] Maybe I'm a minority on this, but I can't hardly understand your posts. It is your fault being linguistically retarded . I have to read your posts two or three times over just to figure out where the sentences begin and end and then try to make sense of the missing words and misspellings. You have some interesting opinions on things. I wish you would take more time to write coherently so I could correctly interpret them.
Dak Posted July 31, 2006 Posted July 31, 2006 Dyslexic with a capitol 'Y' I have to read your posts two or three times over just to figure out where the sentences begin and end really? i might be extremely bad at spelling, but, because of this, i've made an extra effort to learn how to punctuate properly (bad punctuation on top of bad spelling would, imo, be unforgivable, espescially as there's nothing stopping me from punctuating properly). I may not be absolutely uber-great at punctuation, but i at least include full-stops, excepting at the end of a paragraph, where they are redundant, thus making determining where one sentance ends and another begins easy Other than that, for what it's worth, i do appologise to everyone if my posts are hard to read. (do i miss words out? i know i do that when speaking, but wasn't aware that i did it when typing)
Pangloss Posted July 31, 2006 Posted July 31, 2006 On the other hand, this might not be exactly[/i'] the same, inasmuch as Arabic is so closely tied with Islam. After all, the Quran cannot be translated, so what can other languages bring besides Satan? Seems like the move of an oppressive theocracy to me. Just to clarify, as they point out in the article, the language being protected here is not Arabic, but rather Persian, aka Farsi. Iranians are not Arabs, but they are Moslems, so they're not concerned so much about Arabic words creeping into the Farsi language. What they're concerned about, of course, is western language creep. And this certainly fits in with their issues with western culture. Given the fact that they want (or at least tolerate) one kind of creep but not another kind of creep, I'd call that hypocrisy. And it's an ironic hypocrisy, given how important their ethnic difference from the Arabs is to them (something they are VERY MUCH downplaying these days). I'll have to see if I can dig up some of the more interesting superiority rhetoric. It's been a while since I've read about it, but as I understand it many Iranians feel they are superior to Arabs. One good fictional example of this can be seen in the recent movie "House of Sand and Fog", starring Ben Kingsley and Jennifer Connelly. I've known Iranians, and I know from personal experience that many of them are insulted by the way westerners see them as Arabs. Call one an Arab some time and you'll see what I mean. As I say, this is something that Iran has pushed to the back burner in their social and political interactions with the Arab world these days, as they try to become a power broker for the region. But they haven't forgotten it.
walrusman Posted July 31, 2006 Posted July 31, 2006 really? i might be extremely bad at spelling, but, because of this, i've made an extra effort to learn how to punctuate properly (bad punctuation on top of bad spelling would, imo, be unforgivable, espescially as there's nothing stopping me from punctuating properly). I may not be absolutely uber-great at punctuation, but i at least include full-stops, excepting at the end of a paragraph, where they are redundant, thus making determining where one sentance ends and another begins easy Other than that, for what it's worth, i do appologise to everyone if my posts are hard to read. (do i miss words out? i know i do that when speaking, but wasn't aware that i did it when typing) I honestly had no idea. I would never say that to someone with that knowledge. I apologize, whole-heartedly. With that in mind, you're doing quite well actually. Now, I'm impressed. Again, I am sorry.
Dak Posted July 31, 2006 Posted July 31, 2006 I honestly had no idea. I would never say that to someone with that knowledge. I apologize' date=' whole-heartedly. With that in mind, you're doing quite well actually. Now, I'm impressed. Again, I am sorry.[/quote'] an appology really is not neccesary. My spelling is shit, as i'm fully aware, and i certainly don't hold it against people when they notice, or if they get frustrated trying to decypher what i mean (or if they take the mickey, as severian and pangloss did) As a brief side note, phrases like 'i had no idea you were dyslexic, i thought you were just terrible at spelling' have allways amused me plus, lmao at gcol, but waz 'erse', like, inni mush-geez?
Severian Posted July 31, 2006 Posted July 31, 2006 (or if they take the mickey, as severian and pangloss did) Don't take it personally. I take the mickey out of everyone - I am allowed to, since I am a doctor...
Dak Posted July 31, 2006 Posted July 31, 2006 Don't take it personally. I take the mickey out of everyone - I am allowed to, since I am a doctor... man, i can't wait till i'm a doctor ========== Back on topic, does anyone know anything about AGULF, or the french 'can't use a foreign word if a french one exists' law? I googled, but info was sparse, and contrary... some sources said magazines have been sued over using 'unnessesary' english words, whilst others say that usage of non-french in things like websites are protected by frances constitution (freedom of speach).
ecoli Posted August 2, 2006 Posted August 2, 2006 Yeah, on the one hand, France has enforced strict control over the French language for hundreds of years, and as a result it has changed very little from foreign influence. Maybe that's why France and Iran get along so well... http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/744705.html
Sisyphus Posted August 2, 2006 Posted August 2, 2006 I googled' date=' but info was sparse, and contrary... some sources said magazines have been sued over using 'unnessesary' english words, whilst others say that usage of non-french in things like websites are protected by frances constitution (freedom of speach).[/quote'] http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Academie_Francais This should cover it.
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