Igor Suman Posted August 2, 2006 Posted August 2, 2006 Unfortunately I am aware of a 14year old boy who for most of his life has:- * Tortured animals (two pet animals have died as a result of his cruelty). * made unprovoked attacks on smaller children, and elderly & disabled adults. * Set fires in his home and elsewhere. * Urinated in inappropriate places in his home, (also throws containers of urine). Is this child a sociopath ? The "triad" of animal cruelty, pyromania and enuresis seems to fit. Is there any treatment which could reform his character ? (I have heard that sociopaths are incurable). Is it appropriate to medicate this child with Ritalin ? (wouldn't this stimulant be counter-productive if he is actually sociopathic, rather than ADD). Serious constructive responses please.
Anjruu Posted August 2, 2006 Posted August 2, 2006 If you are in a position of authority over this boy, I would take him into a trained psychologist and present his actions there. I'm afraid that any response on this forum, in my opinion, would have neither enough specificity nor enough expertise (please forgive me, any people who do) for such a case.
scicop Posted August 2, 2006 Posted August 2, 2006 kid wants attention. Some good parenting would work, i.e. a swift kick in the arse. however, if that fails, pyschosocial intervention would be the next step, i.e. psychologist. If that fails or is not working effectively, then last step would be psychiatry, or rather, pharmacothearapeutic intervention.
Igor Suman Posted September 13, 2006 Author Posted September 13, 2006 Since I started this link this 14 year old boy has:- Committed arson three times, (fire brigade required for one), Threatened to hit a much younger boy with a brick, Threatened to stab a much younger girl and Attacked a female teacher, (he has now been expelled from school). Evidently Ritalin is not effective in this individual.
AzurePhoenix Posted September 13, 2006 Posted September 13, 2006 I say seal him in a dark basement and feed him fishheads through a slot until he becomes a model citizen.
ParanoiA Posted September 13, 2006 Posted September 13, 2006 Wow, I'm suddenly feeling so much better about my kids... More information is required. Parents? Mental stability of the mother and father? Who is currently the active caregiver? This child is going to do something irreversible. It's not a question of if, it's a matter of when. He needs a professional immediately before a tragedy dictates it.
gcol Posted September 13, 2006 Posted September 13, 2006 I am with Azure Phoenix, but was wary of being accused again of flippancy. Tempted now to go further, how about proactive lethal injection to save the lives he seems destined to take as he moves into adulthhood? But then must not take the bread from the mouths of the trickcyclists.
timo Posted September 13, 2006 Posted September 13, 2006 Evidently Ritalin is not effective in this individual. You are experimenting with drugs on a 14 year-old ? More information is required. Parents? Mental stability of the mother and father? Who is currently the active caregiver? What would you do with the information above? Imho, the much more important information is: Where do you live? Availability and structure of social, psychic and psychiatric counseling probably varies over the world and maybe even within a country. And the only useful advice I can imagine coming out of this thread would be something like"go to X, you´ll find the adress on www.xyz.ab".
ParanoiA Posted September 13, 2006 Posted September 13, 2006 What would you do with the information above? Imho' date=' the much more important information is: Where do you live? Availability and structure of social, psychic and psychiatric counseling probably varies over the world and maybe even within a country. And the only useful advice I can imagine coming out of this thread would be something like"go to X, you´ll find the adress on www.xyz.ab".[/quote'] Good point. I ask about mom and dad because many mental illnesses are hereditary. Also wanted to know who is responsible for this child. They need to be convinced of his need for help.
LivinLiberal Posted September 13, 2006 Posted September 13, 2006 There is nothing constructive to be done! Whatever the diagnosis of this childs state is. Based on our, (humanities), current level on knowledge of mental defects is too primitive. This youngster and all around him, are doomed to enjoy the experience of terror, lost. Followed by blame, recriminations, accusations, protestations, righteous indignations, self serving useless observations. And then the politicians get involved! When all is said and done, he will be sentence to death and 18 years later, executed.
ParanoiA Posted September 13, 2006 Posted September 13, 2006 There is nothing constructive to be done! Whatever the diagnosis of this childs state is. Based on our' date=' (humanities), current level on knowledge of mental defects is too primitive. This youngster and all around him, are doomed to enjoy the experience of terror, lost. Followed by blame, recriminations, accusations, protestations, righteous indignations, self serving useless observations. And then the politicians get involved! When all is said and done, he will be sentence to death and 18 years later, executed.[/quote'] You forgot about the movie...you know, the one where we exaggerate all of the violence, censor the sex and bleep the dirty words so we don't mess up the rest of our kids.
Cap'n Refsmmat Posted September 13, 2006 Posted September 13, 2006 You are experimenting with drugs on a 14 year-old ? Ritalin is commonly prescribed for children younger than 14 in the US.
Bettina Posted September 13, 2006 Posted September 13, 2006 If he's been to a doctor already and that hasn't worked then he needs to be in a mental hospital. Definately out of society. Sorry. Bettina
Rhino Posted September 14, 2006 Posted September 14, 2006 I have no idea where in the world you are. If you are in the US then there isn't much you can do other than report the incidents to social services. Not just one incident but all of them. Which means he will more than likely be taken from his parents if they are found to be negligent. Then he will be placed in "in-patient" hospital care until he gets placed into a foster home. Then he will be moved from foster home to foster home, because there will be people who will take him in that think they can deal with him and "fix" him. When he becomes to much for them to handle he will be throw back to social services for more in-patient therapy. Wash, rinse, and repeat until his eighteenth birthday. At that age he will no longer be the responsibility of the state and he will be unleashed upon society. If you really wish to do something that is pretty much you're only alternative. I only have what little information you gave me. I do not know how long you have been "unfortunately aware" of a 14 year old who has been this way most of his life. It seems like you would have had to known about it for quite sometime to know that he has been that way this long, or you are only taking someone else's word. If you have known about it for very long and you have done nothing until now then you can share some of the blame for standing by and letting it get out of control. If you just now became aware then the people who told you can share the blame. * Tortured animals (two pet animals have died as a result of his cruelty).* made unprovoked attacks on smaller children' date=' and elderly & disabled adults. * Set fires in his home and elsewhere. * Urinated in inappropriate places in his home, (also throws containers of urine). [/quote'] Most of those actions you listed are also carried out by children who are molested at a very young age. It doesn't make them anywhere close to being a sociopath. Bad things happen to children and they act out. The same things I said above about social services can apply for children who are molested as well. Some of them get the help they need, and turn out be fine "model citizens" with or without a strict diet of fishheads. However, there are many who don't.
JesuBungle Posted September 14, 2006 Posted September 14, 2006 From my experience in mental health, which isnt a whole lot, setting fires for no apparent reason or purpose is a common action among schizophrenics. My friend's brother(who was schizophrenic) used to pile furniture in the middle of a room and walk back and forth trying to decide if he wanted to set it on fire inside the house or out in the yard.
Igor Suman Posted September 15, 2006 Author Posted September 15, 2006 " The terms "sociopath" and "psychopath" are sometimes used to describe an individual with anti-social personality disorder. People with anti-social personality disorder show a chronic lack of concern for the rules and expectations of society, and repeatedly violate the rights of others. The exact cause of anti-social personality disorder isn't known. However, genetic and environmental factors may play a role. Anti-social personality disorder occurs more often in men than in women. Signs and symptoms typically appear in childhood and may include bedwetting, cruelty to animals and pyromania. Teens and adults with anti-social personality disorder may: Repeatedly break the law Display reckless or impulsive behavior Exhibit persistent irritability and aggressive behavior Repeatedly lie to and manipulate others Be unable to sustain long-term relationships Show consistent irresponsibility, such as failing to pay bills or hold a steady job Abuse alcohol or drugs Show little or no remorse for their actions Anti-social personality disorder is difficult to treat. Group counseling may help some people. Treatment of coexisting conditions, such as anxiety, depression and substance abuse, is also important and may improve some symptoms of anti-social personality disorder. " http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/antisocial-personality-disorder/AN00703
Rhino Posted September 15, 2006 Posted September 15, 2006 " The terms "sociopath" and "psychopath" are sometimes used to describe an individual with anti-social personality disorder. People with anti-social personality disorder show a chronic lack of concern for the rules and expectations of society' date=' and repeatedly violate the rights of others. The exact cause of anti-social personality disorder isn't known. However, genetic and environmental factors may play a role. Anti-social personality disorder occurs more often in men than in women. Signs and symptoms typically appear in childhood and may include [b']bedwetting, cruelty to animals and pyromania[/b]. Teens and adults with anti-social personality disorder may: Repeatedly break the law Display reckless or impulsive behavior Exhibit persistent irritability and aggressive behavior Repeatedly lie to and manipulate others Be unable to sustain long-term relationships Show consistent irresponsibility, such as failing to pay bills or hold a steady job Abuse alcohol or drugs Show little or no remorse for their actions Anti-social personality disorder is difficult to treat. Group counseling may help some people. Treatment of coexisting conditions, such as anxiety, depression and substance abuse, is also important and may improve some symptoms of anti-social personality disorder. " http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/antisocial-personality-disorder/AN00703 That's brilliant. How does attempting to slap us in the face with a deffinition of Antisocial Personality Disorder help out this child? I think you need to do a little more research though because is it widely accepted in the field of psycology that..... Antisocial Personality Disorder can not be formaly diagnosed until a person is at least 18 years old.
AzurePhoenix Posted September 15, 2006 Posted September 15, 2006 [b']Antisocial Personality Disorder can not be formaly diagnosed until a person is at least 18 years old.[/b] sure, but it doesn't mean he doesn't ultimately have it though, and with everything else failing to make a dent in him it couldn't hurt to approach the possibility that perhaps he's got this thing that up till now everyone seems to have been quietly avoiding for the implications it raises.
Rhino Posted September 15, 2006 Posted September 15, 2006 sure, but it doesn't mean he doesn't ultimately have it thoughI'm not saying it's not a possibility. I just don't agree with labeling someone with something they obviously don't know more about than what they've found on the internet. with everything else failing to make a dent in him it couldn't hurt to approach the possibility that perhaps he's got this thing that up till now everyone seems to have been quietly avoiding for the implications it raises. We don't have enough information to know if any one has tried to make a "dent" in him. Maybe nothing has failed because nothing has been tried. We don't have any sort of background information. All we have are allegations of behavior. Instead of getting anymore information that might lead to some insight as to why this child is displaying this behavior Igor decided at an attempt to educate everyone on APD. Which leads me to believe that Igor didn't get the answer he was looking for. Since Igor used the phrase "unfortunately I am aware". It looks as though Igor is wanting an answer from someone here to clear his or her "unfortunately aware" conscience without any action to be taken. The statement Igor made about hearing how sociopaths are incurable. Also leads me to believe that as well. I think the real unfortunate one here is the 14 year old boy not Igor.
ParanoiA Posted September 15, 2006 Posted September 15, 2006 This describes my teens perfectly... Repeatedly break the law - underage drinking, smoking pot...etc Display reckless or impulsive behavior - trunk surfing, a ton of other things... Exhibit persistent irritability and aggressive behavior - well duh... Repeatedly lie to and manipulate others - another duh... Be unable to sustain long-term relationships - I don't know a teen that should Show consistent irresponsibility, such as failing to pay bills or hold a steady job - never had a job more than a month, ruined a great job my dad got for me on his word, mom paid my bills cuz she felt sorry for me... Abuse alcohol or drugs - ever since 13... Show little or no remorse for their actions - there's a teen that does show remorse for their actions...I sure as hell never did That list describes me and every one of my friends I grew up with. What kind of joke is this? If we're all Antisocial Personality Disordered, then maybe it's not such a bad thing. I've got a great job, hot and sweet wife, two wonderful kids and a frig full of beer. I think the bedwetting, cruelty to animals and pyromania is what stands out. If I were you, I'd take him to a professional, rather than jack around this forum while he continues to terrorize the world around him...
AzurePhoenix Posted September 15, 2006 Posted September 15, 2006 I'm not saying it's not a possibility. I just don't agree with labeling someone with something they obviously don't know more about than what they've found on the internet. I don't disagree, I just think it was premature to bite his headoff for what might not have been anymore than putting forward a suggestion that might at least get him some guidance. At this point myself I see only two options; get him analyzed and possibly helped by profesionals and let them figure it out and not come here for laymen possiblities - or follow my first suggestion about the basement.
Rhino Posted September 15, 2006 Posted September 15, 2006 I don't disagree, I just think it was premature to bite his headoff for what might not have been anymore than putting forward a suggestion that might at least get him some guidance. I did make a suggestion my first post. I suggested to make reports of every incident to social services. Instead of saying anything about the advice anyone gave good, bad, or otherwise. Igor decided to throw a deffinition in our faces without giving any indication of intentions. So I am left here to assume Igor is doing nothing while waiting on a better answer in which Igor has to do nothing. At this point myself I see only two options; get him analyzed and possibly helped by profesionals and let them figure it out and not come here for laymen possiblities - or follow my first suggestion about the basement. Igor may not be in the postition to do either of those options. I'm betting Igor isn't a legal guardian of this child so Igor can not take the boy to get help from professionals. If that is indeed the case then the basement option is out unless Igor is comfortable with kidnapping, and likes the smell of fish heads. We would also have to assume Igor has a basement. The two real options here are to report the incidents to the proper authorities or do nothing.
AzurePhoenix Posted September 15, 2006 Posted September 15, 2006 it keeps slipping my mind that igor is an outside entity in all of this
Rhino Posted September 15, 2006 Posted September 15, 2006 it keeps slipping my mind that igor is an outside entity in all of this Without any further information from Igor there is no way for us to really know.
ike Posted September 16, 2006 Posted September 16, 2006 Isn't bedwetting and cruelty to animals a common trait among serial killers ? That boy needs some kind of intervention, and soon, because the community he's in runs the risk of having a Ted Bundy on their hands.
Recommended Posts