Middle Eastern associates.

[Rebiu]

Middle Eastern associates.

 

What associates do you have or once had that once live in the Middle East?

 

I new a Pakistani in college.

 

My tech graphic instructor Massud Hassan was from Iran.

 

I worked for a Lebanese family in Hawaii

 

I worked with a girl name Jaffari from Iran.

 

The gas station around the corner is owned by a Pakistani family.

[Severian]

What is the point of this?

[Rebiu]

What is the point of this?

Perhaps is we put a face on the people we will be less willing to slaughter them in the name of fighting Radical Islam.

[gcol]

Help! They are everywhere! Fetch the DDT!

 

Seriously though, I worked with many. After a while they were just another workmate. Some I got on with better than others, but that's the way it is in any workplace.

 

One did extoll the virtues of genital shaving, though. He said "When you are having Ziggy Ziggy (his euphemism for sex) and the little hairs rub together, it is extra yummy".

 

Later he had a dispute with a tenant, beat his head to a pulp with a hammer and threw the hammer into a passing lorry. You can never tell.

[ecoli]

Middle Eastern associates.

 

What associates do you have or once had that once live in the Middle East?

 

I new a Pakistani in college.

 

My tech graphic instructor Massud Hassan was from Iran.

 

I worked for a Lebanese family in Hawaii

 

I worked with a girl name Jaffari from Iran.

 

The gas station around the corner is owned by a Pakistani family.

 

You do know that niether Pakistan nor Iran are really in the 'middle east' right?

[Severian]

Perhaps is we put a face on the people we will be less willing to slaughter them in the name of fighting Radical Islam.

 

Then that is commendable. I must confess I was worried that you wanted to know where they were to facilitate their slaughter in the name of fighting Radical Islam.

[Rebiu]

You do know that niether Pakistan nor Iran are really in the 'middle east' right?

Gee this map says otherwiseMap of Middle East

[Bettina]

I don't know if they come from the middle east or not but there is a very nice Palestinian couple who operate a small store that I've been going to since I was little. They have Palestinian photos on their wall along with a photo of their son in a U.S. Air force uniform.

 

Thats all I can think of. Hope that helps.

 

Bettina

[Martin]

When I was a boy 7-10 a close collaborator of my dad was a statistician named Afif Tanous (ah-FEEF ta-NOUSE)

 

My dad respected him because he was a careful reliable pro at what he did.

He became a friend and would come over to the house.

He was short and chubby and had a little moustache. I remember him

as kind and joking. But with grownups he was a bit dignified, I guess to make up for being short.

 

I think Afif was Lebanese.

 

the only reason I remember him is that he was gentle and liked kids so he was a welcome visitor, from my viewpoint. I have forgotten a lot of the names and faces of other visitors.

 

==================

 

When I was 11, we moved to a different town and we discovered that we liked the neighbors who lived down the block (maybe 12 houses) on my way to school.

 

The mother was Armenian, named Zabel (another one with the accent on the second syllable---- za-BELL)

 

she was beautiful and witty. Her husband liked sailing and we would go out on the water with him. She did not like boats. She was unusually smart about buying rugs at estate sales. Her house was full of beautiful things (even though her husband, as a newspaper reporter, made a modest income.

===========

 

I already told you about the two Egyptian students to whom we sublet our apartment for one school year. Or maybe it was two school years. I forget. They were terrible.

 

Maybe they thought I hated them because they were Egyptian. Hah! I hated them because they were sneaky and despicable.

[ecoli]

Gee this map says otherwiseMap of Middle East

 

I, personally, would consider the middle east to be from Syria in the north to Yemen in the south Israel in the west to Iraq in the east.

[Martin]

I hope some other people will add their memories of association with Middle East people.

 

IRANIANS are a very important group. Iran has about 1/4 of world oil (rough estimate) and may soon test nuclear devices.

Many Iranian middle class educated and business people came to US after Shah was overthrown----many got rich or were successful in other ways.

 

My wife's sister's doctor is an Iranian, he is excellent MD and also successful novelist. he writes in English of his boyhood and growing up in Iran and he writes fiction that sells.

 

the issue of Iranians is especially topical because one hears of preparations to attack Iran.

 

If you are sensitive to race and language group then I would advise not to confuse Iranians with Semitic or Arabic-speaking people. Iranians speak an Indo-European language Farsi related to other European languages and to Greek. I have noticed a lot of Iranians have the combination of black hair and light grey eyes. I met an Iranian at the grocery store a while back. He loves California and wears a cowboy hat and a handcraft beltbuckle. Maybe he thinks it makes him fit in. he is very lean and looks like mountain people often look, from whereever. The Sierras remind him of his home in Iran.

 

Iranians sometimes resent it if you confuse them with Arabs.

Their neighbors, the Iraqi, are Arabic-speaking. There is a racial and linguistic difference. In my experience of them at least. They were the old-time Persians that had an empire and that the Greeks had to fight off. For many years there were a lot of Iranian students at Berkeley who impressed me as spoiled brats. But then many students are that.

Their families had money and they were here to pick up an Engineering degree, party, and have a lot of girlfriends.

 

One of our town's best local actors is an Iranian. I saw him in a play by Brecht. I talked to him and liked him. he is big. he can do anything----sing, dance, act Shakespeare, be funny. mostly he is just a big guy who is a powerful actor.

He and a bunch of other Iranians have started a local Theater troup, they put on their own plays that they write, and other kind of plays, whatever they like.

 

Iranians are very proud of their poets, like Hafiz. I don't like Hafiz.

And Rumi (a mystical poet who is funny sometimes) I dont like Rumi either---he is sentimental. but the Iranians love their national poets, and they can often RECITE poetry and like to do it! I am told it is not unusual for Iranians to write poetry.

Omar Khayyam, who got famous in English translation among Westerners, was a Persian

 

they had a decent culture before the accursed reactionary Mullahs took over.

 

I think of KURDS as also part of the Middle East. Some of them have blue eyes. Saladin, the famous opponent of the crusader Richard Lionheart, was a Kurd. Saladin was a superb and daring military leader. Richard wanted to keep feudal control of the Kingdom of Jerusalem so he offered Saladin a deal whereby Saladin's brother got to marry Johanna, Richard's sister, and Richard would give him Jerusalem in foefdom and several other cities as his feudal overlord (Saladin's brother still got the girl and the cities, he just had to acknowledge getting them as gifts from Richard) and they wouldn't fight.

 

Kurds are another example of Non-Semitic-speaking, i.e. Non-Arab people in the Middle East. I think Kurdish is Indo-European. Turks are different too. they aren't even Indo-European like the Iranians and Kurds. Turkish is a totally different language related to Mongol, and they are racially different from Arabs and also from Kurds and Iranians.

 

Anybody please correct me if you see any mistakes.

 

I have to go to supper. Middle East includes all these different languages and histories, doesnt it? Very complicated and interesting.

 

didnt even get around to Paletinians, Ashkenazim and Sephardim. Ashkenazi Jews are the Europeans---they are fairly recent arrivals so maybe they don't count as "Middle east people i have known"

but Palestinians and Sephardic Jews (the noneuropean branch of the Diaspora) certainly count as Middle East!

 

Getting sleepy. this thread is a good idea. Make "Middle East" less of an abstract idea, bring it down to level of individuals.

I found it a valuable exercise for me. May have bored you but I got something out of remembering.

Hope some other people contribute their lists.

[Rebiu]

I, personally, would consider the middle east to be from Syria in the north to Yemen in the south Israel in the west to Iraq in the east.

That is pretty specific. Is there a term I could use to describe and area including Pakistan and Iran that would be okay with you?

[Rebiu]

I hope some other people will add their memories of association with Middle East people.

 

IRANIANS are a very important group. Iran has about 1/4 of world oil (rough estimate) and may soon test nuclear devices.

Many Iranian middle class educated and business people came to US after Shah was overthrown----many got rich or were successful in other ways.

My Iranian technical Graphics teacher profoundly affected my life with this one philosophical gem. "The only engine that operates at greater than %100 efficiency is the learning engine."

[mooeypoo]

You all know one, me.

 

Hi, my name is Moriel, and I am a middle eastern.

 

 

This entire drill to "connect middle east to a face" to prevent slaughtering radical islam is kinda void. Not the whole of middle east is muslim, as I am a good example. There are, in fact, many muslims out of the middle east. France is an excellent example.

 

I never wanted to slaughter anyone, radical islamic or no. This seems to me a generalization derived of lack of knowledge and fear, and is kind of innappropriate. If you want to "put faces" on radical islam, the WHOLE of "Middle East" is not the way. The middle east is not "Radical Islam", it's an area where people live.

 

If you want to put a face on radical islam, you should ask how many radical islamists people know. Or how many muslims people know. That would show people that not all muslims are evil, bad, or terrorists, which they are not. I've lived next to muslims my entire life, and most of them are peaceful people; but saying 'lets name middle easterns' in that concept, is the same as saying 'how many israelis you know' in order to put a face on Radical Orthodox Jews..

 

So yes, I am a middle easterner.

 

And I still think this is a void excercise

 

 

~moo

[Rebiu]

Was this post helpful?

Hi' date=' my name is Moriel, and I am a middle eastern.

This entire drill to "connect middle east to a face" to prevent slaughtering radical islam is kinda void. Not the whole of middle east is muslim, as I am a good example.[/quote']Are you Jewish?

I never wanted to slaughter anyone, radical islamic or no. This seems to me a generalization derived of lack of knowledge and fear, and is kind of innappropriate. If you want to "put faces" on radical islam, the WHOLE of "Middle East" is not the way. The middle east is not "Radical Islam", it's an area where people live.

I do not want to put a face on "Radical Islam" I want to put a face on the innocent people that will get slaughtered.

[mooeypoo]

Was this post helpful?

 

This entire thread isn't.

 

Are you Jewish?

Not that it is any of your business, but yes.

 

I do not want to put a face on "Radical Islam" I want to put a face on the innocent people that will get slaughtered.

In that case, I would like to withdraw my getting to know you officially. I don't want to be one of those who will be slaughtered. I have enough friends who's already part of that list as it is.

 

~moo

[mooeypoo]

btw, if indeed that was your intention, try to phrase yourself better next time.

 

Perhaps is we put a face on the people we will be less willing to slaughter them in the name of fighting Radical Islam.

 

That sentence leads into a few false assumptions:

1. That we want to slaughter Radical Islamists.

2. That the people you are introducing - people that live/d in the middle east - are those people. Radical Islamists.

 

Which is why I don't quite understand the point of this thread, still.

 

~moo

[Rebiu]

This entire thread isn't.

Oooooh that really stings.

 

 

Not that it is any of your business' date=' but yes.[/quote']You do not have to answer. Your perspective, tone and interest in Metaphysics make it pretty clear.

 

 

In that case' date=' I would like to withdraw my getting to know you officially. I don't want to be one of those who will be slaughtered. I have enough friends who's already part of that list as it is.[/quote']I think you are safe in New York. Were you friends among the hundreds of women and children slaughtered by the IDF?

[Rebiu]

Please clear up your perspective.

btw, if indeed that was your intention, try to phrase yourself better next time.

What else could it possible mean?

That sentence leads into a few false assumptions:

1. That we want to slaughter Radical Islamists.

What group are you including yourself in when you say "we"?

2. That the people you are introducing - people that live/d in the middle east - are those people. Radical Islamists.

The vast majority of the people killed in the Middle East are completely innocent. It is these people that I wish to protect.

 

Which is why I don't quite understand the point of this thread' date=' still.

 

~moo[/quote']Perhaps you lack the capacity.

[ecoli]

That is pretty specific. Is there a term I could use to describe and area including Pakistan and Iran that would be okay with you?

 

I may be splitting hairs here, but: Iran: Persia and Pakistan : India/Asia

 

The vast majority of the people killed in the Middle East are completely innocent. It is these people that I wish to protect.

 

It seems to me that you are suggesting that these innocents were killed by Israeli's with ill intent. I don't believe that to be the case, but then, this topic has been covered quite extensively already.

 

Perhaps you lack the capacity.

 

please, no ad hominems.

[Dak]

Which is why I don't quite understand the point of this thread, still.

 

to humanise the middle east

[ecoli]

to humanise the middle east

 

I don't recall anyone in this forum dehumanising it. I understand what this thread is trying to do, I just don't think it's necesary.

 

It's like proving you aren't racist by listing about all the Black people you know. You just wind up bringing unwanted attention to yourself. Seems rather childish if you ask me.

[mooeypoo]

to humanise the middle east

I had no idea it was inhumanized..

 

i think the biggest problem with this thread is that it deminishes the difference between terrorism and societies. There are different societies in the Middle East, but it doesn't mean they are all inhuman terrorists.

 

If the idea is to put "a face" on the innocent people so that you won't hurry to attack them, perhaps there should be a question as to why people want to attack innocent people. Innocent people should not be murdered regardless of their "visible faces" or not.

 

On the other hand, if this thread's view is that the middle east is terrorism spread, perhaps there is a need to stop generalizing, and start looking at the rest of the world, which is full of inhuman terrorists of all kind.

 

"Putting a face" on middle easterners sounds like a pretty bad way to try and generalize an entire region of the world out of lack of knowledge and fear. I can understand where it comes from, but it doesn't mean it is a good idea to keep it.

 

May I remind people that terrorist cells exist in the entire world, Europe in specific, and that many of the terrorists that are active against western countries actually have citizenship in more than just "middle eastern" states? Terrorism is not something you should stick to one society. It exists everywhere, sadly, and the fact that many of today's terrorism comes from Islam, and that the origin of Islam is the middle east, does not mean that the middle east is full with terrorists.

 

I've never heard there is a plan to massacre the "middle east", so just like I wouldn't say "Let's put a face on Americans so we see the innocent people who are subject to terrorism", I don't, still, quite see the point in saying the same about middle easterns.

 

~moo

[mooeypoo]

Rebiu, your response is quite childishly defensive. I didn't mean to get you on such a defensive approach, I was simply stating my opinion. You don't seem to answer my point, just ask question in an appearant attempt to "strike me back".

 

let me clarify a bit.

 

btw' date=' if indeed that was your intention, try to phrase yourself better next time.[/quote']

What else could it possible mean?

 

A lot of things, I am glad you didn't mean them. You need to understand, however, that when you state that sort of statement, as ecoli compared quite appropriately to "black people" (though I don't think this is the term I would use), you draw attention to the ethnic subject, instead of your desired point.

 

That was all I intended to say. It really wasn't my intention to draw you to an armwrestling match. I said I didn't understand your idea - and appearantly I wasn't the only one, read up - I expected you to clarify, not to attack me.

 

The vast majority of the people killed in the Middle East are completely innocent. It is these people that I wish to protect.

You are absolutely right, but the people killed differ in their ethnicity, religion and geographical location, and mostly in the surrounding background events that lead to their deaths. If your intention is to start a political debate on why a war happened, then clarify your post. If it isn't, you are generalizing again.

 

I have lost many friends to terrorist attacks that hit them when they weren't fighting, nor when they were "trying to kill innocent people". When they rode that bloodbath bus, they ARE the innocent people. Who, exactly, do YOU mean by the group you are talking about? "Majority of the middle easy" is just too big of a generalization.

 

It's like me saying "The majority of America", reffering to the United States, Canada, Mexico, and Latin America in whole. It just doesn't work, and has no point.

 

You are not going to protect anyone by generalizing, and definately not when the context sounds like an ethnic generalization.

 

So, again, what exactly is your point?

 

Something I didn't quite understand, aswell. We are all human beings, civil I would hope, trying to discuss matters that touch us. This, though slipped my border of understanding your point completely:

What group are you including yourself in when you say "we"?

I reffer to myself as the rest of the world, and definately not part of those who kill innocent people. So if you seperate "those who kill" to "innocent", I concider myself the latter.

 

Who are you including me in without knowing me, really?

Perhaps that would shed some light on your post's intentions?

 

Perhaps you lack the capacity.

See, this is just too childish to respond to. Grow up.

 

~moo

[Rebiu]

I may be splitting hairs here, but: Iran: Persia and Pakistan : India/Asia

I see that you are lost so just forget the question.

It seems to me that you are suggesting that these innocents were killed by Israeli's with ill intent. I don't believe that to be the case' date=' but then, this topic has been covered quite extensively already.[/quote']Just Callous disregard.