Arrogance of Youth.

[YT2095]

I stumbled across this and quite liked it

 

"

A very self-important college freshman attending a recent football game, took it upon himself to explain to a senior citizen sitting next to him why it was impossible for the older generation to understand his generation.

"You grew up in a different world, actually an almost primitive one,"the student said, loud enough for many of those nearby to hear.

"The young people of today grew up with television, jet planes, space travel, man walking on the moon, our spaceships have visited Mars. We have nuclear energy, electric and hydrogen cars, computers with light-speed processing....and," pausing to take another drink of beer......

The Senior took advantage of the break in the student's litany and said, "You're right, son. We didn't have those things when we were young........so we invented them. Now, what are you doing for the next generation?"

 

Thoughts?

 

[Phi for All]

In my teens and twenties I was always putting my foot in my mouth like that. And I grew up with lots of aunts and uncles who were great role models. I still underestimated them.

 

I think youthful arrogance is worse in the US for some reason. I read about a mountain community in Europe where the kids wouldn't think of trying to climb any of the local mountains without getting advice from someone older who had climbed them before. It was important and they knew such advice could mean life and death. In the US most kids have this independent streak that almost makes it seem weak to ask for advice from someone older, like an admission of defeat. I'm sure it has caused more grief than object lessons.

[Callipygous]

Thoughts?

 

i think the situation applies to each generation, both when you old folks were the young ones, and probably again when i join the aged wise and my children are snotty.

 

 

from the other side, i think old people can be aholes a lot of the time. yes, they are older and probably wiser than me, but im neither stupid nor useless. i have a mind and im capable of using it, id appreciate it if when i express a reasonable thought you could counter it with your wisdom instead of laughing like a jackass and patting me on the back while looking down your nose at me.

 

/end rant

[swansont]

Teenagers and college-age adults know everything, and the older folks know nothing. But it's amazing how, after they spend a couple of years out in the real world, how smart the older folks suddenly get.

[YT2095]

like that saying, "Kids, leave home Now, while you still know everything"

[Sisyphus]

I think it's generally a given that the young tend to underestimate the old. But isn't it also true that each generation tends to have trouble understanding those that come after, as well?

[woelen]

I have to work a lot with younger people (20 .. 25 years old). The good side is that they are very independent, and willing to arrange their own affairs. This is a good thing in consultancy. But the bad side sometimes is that they think that all achievements of today are as common as that the sun rises every morning.

 

Grandpa is visiting his grand child Mike.

Mike wants to show a new computer program to his grandpa. He turns on the computer and then .... the computer does not start up. Mike is totally upset: "The PC does not work!!!! How is this possible?". Grandpa answers: "Mike, everytime when you start your PC, I think it is a miracle that this thing works again.".

 

This is the attitude which I notice with many younger people. Yes, it is a miracle that all these things are working, all over again...

[padren]

When you are a kid you don't tend to know the world in much detail, so you have all kinds of simple theories as to how the world works - and when you are young as long as a theory is self consistent and basically meshes with your own sheltered evidence gathering.

 

Plus, you can always find some older jaded people who have very simple theories to explain how the world doesn't work to explain away their own failings...which when you are young can really leave you with the impression that you are very smart.

 

 

I think its more or less a "you don't know how much you don't know" thing, but it is also helpful. Each generation comes up with new ideas, and then has them tested and challenged by the next. Out of every 10 foot-in-mouth moments, maybe there is one thought that challenges something like segregation.

[herme3]

The amount of respect I have for someone does not depend on their age. There are some senior citizens that are very intelligent and led the way for our present society, and others are just crazy old fools.

 

There are also some very brilliant young people, and then others who are just plain stupid.

 

I look at a person's personality when deciding whether or not I should respect them. I have a lot of respect for people who are very successful, such as business executives and scientists. I also have respect for people who are very kind, and always looking for ways to help other people. In my opinion, these people deserve respect no matter what their age is.

[Royston]

I stumbled across this and quite liked it

 

"

A very self-important college freshman attending a recent football game' date=' took it upon himself to explain to a senior citizen sitting next to him why it was impossible for the older generation to understand his generation.[/size']

"You grew up in a different world, actually an almost primitive one,"the student said, loud enough for many of those nearby to hear.

"The young people of today grew up with television, jet planes, space travel, man walking on the moon, our spaceships have visited Mars. We have nuclear energy, electric and hydrogen cars, computers with light-speed processing....and," pausing to take another drink of beer......

The Senior took advantage of the break in the student's litany and said, "You're right, son. We didn't have those things when we were young........so we invented them. Now, what are you doing for the next generation?"

 

Thoughts?

 

 

I agree with the old fella...you're born into an environment that's been shaped by your predecessors, who had less to work with. Today, we're sitting on a gold-mine of ideas and technology, how does that make us any more clever ? I can't see any progress in 'raw' intelligence, it makes no sense, but there's certainly progress from our accumulated wisdom.

[ecoli]

I can't see any progress[/i'] in 'raw' intelligence, it makes no sense, but there's certainly progress from our accumulated wisdom.

 

Well, these things are usually easier to see in hindsight. I doubt that people saw inventions at the time of their inventings the same way we see them now.

 

For example, my grandmother finds PCs mysterious but takes her telephone almost for granted.

[JohnB]

i have a mind and im capable of using it, id appreciate it if when i express a reasonable thought you could counter it with your wisdom instead of laughing like a jackass and patting me on the back while looking down your nose at me.

Don't take it personally. Most times the laugh is triggered by a memory. The memory of standing where you are and saying the same thing to an older person. It's not you or your idea that's amusing, it's the situation.

 

Think about it. The Hippies, the Flower Children of the Sixties, those who railed against the "Establishment", guess what? Now they are "The Establishment".

 

This fact (and the existence of the Platypus) assures me that the Universe has a deliciously wicked sense of humour.

[D H]

"You grew up in a different world, actually an almost primitive one,"the student said, loud enough for many of those nearby to hear.

 

That's very close to the truth.

 

I think the generation that had to face the greatest amount of change was the one born in the late 18^th century. They were born in a world where change was incremental; their world was largely rural and, with the exception of the railroad, little changed from centuries before. No phones, no lights, no motor cars, not a single luxury. They lived through most of the 20^th century, culmininating in our modern age. They built our modern age.

 

Anyone born in the civilized world after World War II has lived their life in a world where the status quo is constant change. That does make for a difficulty in understanding, both for the young and for the old.

 

In defense of the arrogance of youth, it has long been the case that the young are the ones most likely to make great discoveries. For example, almost all the big improvements to mathematics were made by smart alecks upstarts. Very few mathematicians make any great discoveries once they have reached the ripe old age of forty.

[timo]

The Senior took advantage of the break in the student's litany and said' date=' "You're right, son. We didn't have those things when we were young........so we invented them. Now, what are you doing for the next generation?"

[/size']

Thoughts?

We are making Bradbury´s vision come true and create a world in which no one ever reads a book or thinks for himself but insteads sits at home all the day chatting with people they call friends or family over an interactive medium. Wonder if that will happen in my lifetime ...

[YT2095]

indeed!

the seeds for that were sown a short while ago (maybe 20 years Tops), it`s now a rather large sappling and not far off a fully grown tree.

 

I`m happy to say I`m still on the generous side of 40, although in a few months this will not be the case, I refuse to be writen off as an "Unlikely to acheive anything", although in Maths (as mentioned) you`re probably right

 

I actualy Embrace change where it`s usefull, I dare say others my age and older do Also, we`re Not without understanding as some would like to accuse us of, quite the opposite in fact!

[iglak]

In the US most kids have this independent streak that almost makes it seem weak to ask for advice from someone older, like an admission of defeat.

that's becausee these days it tends to be an admission of defeat.

society has brainwashed adults into thinking that children are just children. teenagers with angst is just a phase. depression is just a chemical imbalance. students are still learning, and thus need our help.

 

the problem here is the "need" part. sure, adult help helps, but if an adult thinks that a child needs his/her help, that's age discrimination, it's dehumanizing, and extremely rude to the child. to us, it doesn't matter if you're right or wrong, it matters that you don't dehumanize us by lumping us all together as "children".

 

 

of course, this causes the reverse to be true too. due to this dehumanization of children and teenagers, the children and teenagers tend to react accordingly, by lumping all adults together as "those people that refuse to respect me".

 

 

thus angst.

thust depreession.

thus hate.

thus more dehumanizing.

etc.

 

 

 

 

this is less true with less meaningful relationships. the closer an adult and child are, the more protective the adult tends to be, and not in a good way. for some reason, as people begin to know eachother for a long time, they tend to see eachother as images, as the same people they were a long time ago, which doesn't allow for much growth or change.

 

the problem tends to start with the parents and teachers.

[swansont]

We are making Bradbury´s vision come true and create a world in which no one ever reads a book or thinks for himself but insteads sits at home all the day chatting with people they call friends or family over an interactive medium. Wonder if that will happen in my lifetime ...

 

 

Which will eventually stifle innovation as people lose the ability to think. If it goes on too long, nobody will know how to fix the machines when they break, because learning that stuff was "too hard."

[Phi for All]

i think the situation applies to each generation, both when you old folks were the young ones, and probably again when i join the aged wise and my children are snotty.

Oh absolutely. That's probably why the old pick on the young, as a defensive gesture because we were just as inexperienced once and hate thinking about the inane things we did.

from the other side, i think old people can be aholes a lot of the time. yes, they are older and probably wiser than me, but im neither stupid nor useless. i have a mind and im capable of using it,

Yeah, but my 20/20 hindsight beats your capable mind every time, kid.

id appreciate it if when i express a reasonable thought you could counter it with your wisdom instead of laughing like a jackass and patting me on the back while looking down your nose at me.

At my age, doing those three things plus drooling and complaining at the same time is a pretty impressive skill set.

[swansont]

Yeah, but my 20/20 hindsight beats your capable mind every time, kid.

 

Right. Remember, youth and enthusiasm are no match for age and treachery.

[Phi for All]

Right. Remember, youth and enthusiasm are no match for age and treachery.

Reminds me of Kathy Bates' great scene in Fried Green Tomatoes:

 

(Evelyn Couch has patiently waited for a parking spot, only to have a couple of girls in a sub-compact steal it from her)

Evelyn: “Hey! I was waiting for that spot!”

 

Girl #1: “Face it, lady, we’re younger and faster!“

 

(Evelyn snarls. She rear-ends the girls’ car a bunch of times, pushing it out of the space. The girls freak, screaming that she’s crazy and what the hell is she doing? Evelyn just smiles, looks to them and says:)

 

Evelyn: “Face it, girls, I’m older and I have more insurance.”

[YT2095]

that's becausee these days it tends to be an admission of defeat.

society has brainwashed adults into thinking that children are just children. teenagers with angst is just a phase. depression is just a chemical imbalance. students are still learning' date=' and thus need our help.

 

the problem here is the "need" part. sure, adult help helps, but if an adult thinks that a child needs his/her help, that's age discrimination, it's dehumanizing, and extremely rude to the child. to us, it doesn't matter if you're right or wrong, it matters that you don't dehumanize us by lumping us all together as "children".

 

 

of course, this causes the reverse to be true too. due to this dehumanization of children and teenagers, the children and teenagers tend to react accordingly, by lumping all adults together as "those people that refuse to respect me".

 

 

thus angst.

thust depreession.

thus hate.

thus more dehumanizing.

etc.

 

 

 

 

this is less true with less meaningful relationships. the closer an adult and child are, the more protective the adult tends to be, and not in a good way. for some reason, as people begin to know eachother for a long time, they tend to see eachother as images, as the same people they were a long time ago, which doesn't allow for much growth or change.

 

the problem tends to start with the parents and teachers.[/quote']

 

I disagree with several points here,

 

sometimes it IS hormones!

and yes children DO need us AND to caution them when they do wrong, without that you cannot show love or provide security and stability.

"de-humanise" is YOUR word here, no-one elses, so lord only knows where That came from?

as for the respect, of teenagers, That must be earned, and that applies right across the board (IMO).

 

being close to your Children is NOT a bad thing, quite the opposite in fact, and no they Don`t hold this picture of you changing diapers when they`re 16, they grow WITH you, there`s no Constant retained like a photograph, that sort of thing only occurs when you`re NOT close to your children!

[Callipygous]

At my age, doing those three things plus drooling and complaining at the same time is a pretty impressive skill set.

what would be really impressive is if you could do it without the nurse.

[Phi for All]

what would be really impressive is if you could do it without the nurse.

Never! She's what keeps me drooling.

[bascule]

I can agree with most sides, but mostly the kid. Old people today don't know WTF is up. Try explaining the Singularity to them. Zuh!

 

But, kids I deal with today don't understand pre-Internet life. Ever used a card catalog? Ever had to use a REAL encyclopedia, rather than Wikipedia? Did you listen to your parents record player before you emoed out and bought your own? No? Well then kid, you're completely clueless as to what pre-Internet life was like.

[Royston]

That's not the argument, we're talking about a level of respect. If the so called 'technological singularity' was introduced 60 years ago, don't you think any given person would understand it, in the same terms as you do. You can't respect somebody more because they are sitting on the ideas of somebody else, that makes no sense.