His own party tries to dump Tony Blair

[Martin]

comment?

especially from UK people who have been following the situation.

 

I just heard on radio that 6 junior members of Blair's Labor government have resigned.

 

and that a move is on within the Labor party to get rid of him pronto---force him to step down before he has a chance to organize his supporters.

 

The next one in line would probably be Gordon Brown, chancellor of exchequer (i.e. Treasury Secretary in our US terms)

 

Blair has already said he would not seek another turn as PM but that is in future after elections-----if I understand correctly----and many of his party want him out of there ASAP

 

anybody want to offer corrections, clarification? explanation?

[Sayonara]

This has been going on for a while.

 

What the papers were saying today is that members of the Labour Party are trying to force Blair to publically confirm the date when he will step down.

[gcol]

A personal view from the U.K.

Should have gone ten years ago. Brown is no shoe-in, either. There are plenty of dissafected MPs waiting to challenge. I suspect a stalking horse will emerge to start the ball rolling.

 

My own prediction (wrong) was that if he wanted an orderly handover, this summer recess would have been a good time.

 

He seems more concerned about leaving a bigger footnote in history than Maggie Thatcher. Fat chance!

 

I never liked him, always thought of him as an oleaginous little toe-rag, all spin and no principles.

 

The rush is on for labour members in marginal seats to save their bacon in the face of declining poll poularity trends, to find a new saviour before the s**t hits the fan next election.

[Aardvark]

I never liked him, always thought of him as an oleaginous little toe-rag, all spin and no principles.

 

I've always wondered what his election appeal was. He seems like the kind of person i wouldn't buy a second hand car from. And yet people vote for him.

 

 

The rush is on for labour members in marginal seats to save their bacon in the face of declining poll poularity trends, to find a new saviour before the s**t hits the fan next election.

 

It really is remarkably unedifying. The country has troops at war. The economy is facing a slowdown, the EU is looking to expand to include the Balkans. And all the government can do is tear itself apart arguing over who should inherit the position of Prime Minister. (and i thought this was a democracy!!)

 

People resigning, not on matters of high principle, but on hopes of ingraciating themselves with a new leader. It's seedy.

 

I think the Labour party is going to regret this, esp as Mr Brown isn't that attractive a political figure. Esp when he actually has to proffer an opinion on something, which he deftly avoids doing now. Then he won't be able to hide behind Mr Blair on controversial issues such as war in Iraq.

[Skye]

I've found it interesting how the British and Australian prime ministers have faced the same issue. Blair made it known this would be his last term, and now he's going in less than a year. The prime minister here, John Howard, has never made any such commitments. A crucial difference is that the government in Britain has been declining, while the government here had an important gain in popularity last election. But I suspect Blair's commitment to leave actually damaged the party, and I think Howard will be taking notice.

[Dave]

This is very reminiscent of the downfall of the Tories in the 1990's. There, the split of the party was because of disagreements in policy; here, it's all about getting re-elected at the end of the term.

 

Going slightly off-topic for a moment, I personally don't rate Brown as a good leader. He lacks charisma and the character required to lead this country, especially after the reams of unpopular policy decisions this Government has made. Besides this, I really don't rate his skills as the Chancellor either; during the time that he's been in power, the tax rules book has (apparently) doubled in size with various clauses and exceptions. A lot of people for the company I do business with have been left in the lurch after he plundered the private pensions scheme, and his failure to increase the threshold of Inheritance Tax has hurt an awful lot of people.

 

I believe that for this reason, the Blairites do not want to see Blair step down. Or rather, if he absolutely is to step down, then they have to try and buy time for another candidate to come through and take over. They assume (correctly, I think) that under Brown, there's absolutely no chance they'll be elected come the May elections.

 

On the other hand, I really don't think they have a chance in hell of getting in anyway. The utter farce currently being displayed in front of everybody is enough to put me off voting for Labour in this election. I believe they've become utterly complacent in their policy decisions and really think they don't have to answer to the people. From the NHS crisis, ID cards through to utterly miserable working hours, stealth taxes, a transport system brough to its knees and the various wars, I'm seriously considering emigrating to another country where I don't have to contend with all this utter lunacy. Most of this is down to the current Government.

 

I bet David Cameron is absolutely loving this.

[Aardvark]

But I suspect Blair's commitment to leave actually damaged the party, and I think Howard will be taking notice.

 

Regardless of ideology, Howard has always struck me as a very shrewd character with a close grasp of public opinion. In contrast i think Mr Blair has let himself become isolated and out of touch.

[Severian]

I agree with Dave. If Brown is labour leader at the next election, I don't have a clue who I would be voting for. It is a very depressing state of affairs.

[Aardvark]

I agree with Dave. If Brown is labour leader at the next election, I don't have a clue who I would be voting for. It is a very depressing state of affairs.

 

Do you mind me asking who you voted for at the last election? If it was Labour was it because of or inspite of Mr Blair? He seems to be a major election asset (which i don't understand!) and i think some of those Labour MPs might end up regreting getting rid of him.

[Sayonara]

From the NHS crisis, ID cards through to utterly miserable working hours, stealth taxes, a transport system brough to its knees and the various wars, I'm seriously considering emigrating to another country where I don't have to contend with all this utter lunacy.

New Zealand.

 

Have my exit strategy all worked out

[JHAQ]

The same thing happened to Maggie Thatcher -- the smiling back stab . YET I so wish we ( in USA ) could give the boot to a leader by a vote of no confidence .

[ParanoiA]

So how does he keep getting re-elected? I thought he was extremely unpopular in the UK.

 

I wonder if it's similar to the Bush polarization. If you watch TV, listen to music or discuss politics at work, you'd think the whole country hates the president. But, come election time, he manages to get at least 51% of the vote.

 

As far as an exit strategy, I was gonna dump my country for the UK! Maybe Holland is more my speed. Sure looks nice on television...

[Dave]

Do you mind me asking who you voted for at the last election? If it was Labour was it because of or inspite of Mr Blair? He seems to be a major election asset (which i don't understand!) and i think some of those Labour MPs might end up regreting getting rid of him.

 

You have to give it to Blair - he is a very good public speaker, and can connect with people on a personal level. Or at least he used to; I think the office has worn him out. By comparison, Brown seems like a bit of a turnip.

 

Also bear in mind that most people don't bother voting, or simply vote for who they've always voted for. I'm hoping this will change in the next election but I wouldn't bet on it.

 

I know the question wasn't directed to me, but the last time I voted, I spoilt my ballot paper in protest. I intend to do this again this time around, or maybe give the Liberals a shot at it.

 

New Zealand.

 

Have my exit strategy all worked out

 

Yup. I'd love to visit there and maybe move there someday. Personally I have my eyes set on Ireland until it gets too full of emigrants from the UK. Technically I'm an Irish citizen anyway (or at least can get a passport) since my grandmother is Irish, and my mom also has an Irish passport.

 

I'm an extremely patriotic person, which is why I get so worked up about UK politics. But I'm patriotic towards what I like to call the 'old' England - without the politically correct rubbish, and when people actually behaved in a civilized fashion. This country is going down the tube extremely quickly, and I'm fairly certain Labour are at least partially responsible for this.

[gcol]

I wonder if it's similar to the Bush polarization. If you watch TV' date=' listen to music or discuss politics at work, you'd think the whole country hates the president. But, come election time, he manages to get at least 51% of the vote.

 

..[/quote']

 

My basic political principles and beliefs have remained little changed since I was rather young. (A lifetime ago). I vote for the party, not the leader. Sometimes my preferred party has had to suffer a leader I dont like at all, but I retain a long term view that outlasts "temporary" leaders.

 

From time to time in local elections I rather guiltily cast a protest vote for the oposition just to shake them out of complacency.

 

When the party I don't like is in power and lead by someone I like even less, I enjoy criticising them endlessly. When my preferred party is in power but departing from its principles and electoral promises, I have to suffer in embarrassed silence and hope that the passing of time will bring them back to their senses.

[Aardvark]

I'm an extremely patriotic person' date=' which is why I get so worked up about UK politics. But I'm patriotic towards what I like to call the 'old' England - without the politically correct rubbish, and when people actually behaved in a civilized fashion. [/quote']

 

Absolutely. Which is why i love New Zealand. It has kept the feeling of the best bits of 'old' England much better than England has itself.

 

This country is going down the tube extremely quickly, and I'm fairly certain Labour are at least partially responsible for this.

 

Am i alone in sometimes thinking that Labour actively dislike their own country? Some of their rhetoric and actions seem to be only explicable from a standpoint of wanting to vandalise the countries culture and identity. It almost feels like England is dying.

[Sayonara]

It seems like smug disdain rather than good old-fashioned dislike.

[Aardvark]

It seems like smug disdain rather than good old-fashioned dislike.

 

Perhaps, but a lot of the enthusiasium for such things as utterly half baked constitutional 'reform', an apparently blind desire to hand over all self governing powers to Brussels and even the peculiar fixation on fox hunting (whilst ignoring any other, more serious animal welfare concerns) seem to originate from a general feeling that anything British or English that is older than 5 years is somehow 'bad' and must be smashed.

 

I definitely get the impression that there is a lot of self hatred for there own country amongst our beloved political masters.

[Sisyphus]

Haha, are there really debates about fox hunting? You crazy limies...

[Sayonara]

Yes, I'm afraid so. But I think most sensible people recognise it's mainly for show.

[Aardvark]

Haha, are there really debates about fox hunting? You crazy limies...

 

People get in a great fuss about it, whilst happily eating their burgers.

 

Apparently cruelty to animals is only wrong if you wear a red coat and shout 'Tally Ho'. Otherwise keep right on with the factory farmed animals, after all, perception is reality, right?

[Pangloss]

Just for the sake of clarification, do I understand correctly that there's no term limit on a PM's time in office? And, am I correct in believing that his term is based on (a) his party's majority hold on government, and (b) his party's desire to see him run things?

 

Regarding the Blair Prime Ministry (is that the correct term?) in general, *setting aside the issue of Iraq*, do you all generally feel that it has been a success or a failure? I realize Aardvark and Gcol and Dave have addressed this somewhat already, but I'd like to hear more along those lines, if it doesn't take us too far off topic.

[Martin]

... but I'd like to hear more along those lines, if it doesn't take us too far off topic.

 

as OPener, i would welcome anything more the inhabitants want to say about UK politics, Blair, Labour, whatever! It would not seem off topic. Interesting to hear.

 

My guess is that Iraq poisoned Blair PM'try and that he might have looked better to folks had it not been for that. Or if he had just stood up to Bush and refused. People might not be finding so much fault with him now. but that's an outsider's guess

 

=============

another thing is excessive immigration. too sudden immigration in too big numbers can screw up a country's politics (regardless of the merits/demerits assets/liabilities of the tidal wave of immigrants) simply because of diluting the cultural cohesion and traditions etc. by which things run. cultural&linguistic continuity matters. can't digest but so much at a time. UK may have been having that problem----if they hadnt been so busy with Iraq maybe they could have controlled the rate. again the naive outsider remark. sorry if inappropriate.

[Pangloss]

I'm curious what is the traditional Labour position on immigration vs the other major parties? In broad strokes?

 

Just to toss another dimension into this discussion, which I don't think will take us too far off topic, I think it's interesting the way certain issues have a tendency to force voters into an issue-voting-after-the-fact posture, where you feel like you're voting based on displeasure over past events, rather than future preferences. I don't know if that's the case or not with you guys and Blair -- I don't mean to put words in your mouths or anything. But I think it's definitely a political factor over here in the states at the moment. I'm curious what you guys think about that influence in the UK.

[Aardvark]

Just for the sake of clarification, do I understand correctly that there's no term limit on a PM's time in office? And, am I correct in believing that his term is based on (a) his party's majority hold on government, and (b) his party's desire to see him run things?

 

Quite correct. As long as the PM maintains a majority in the House of Commons then he remains. The moment he loses that then he is gone. That day.

 

Regarding the Blair Prime Ministry (is that the correct term?) in general, *setting aside the issue of Iraq*, do you all generally feel that it has been a success or a failure?

 

Personally, i consider the last 9 years to have consisted of a slow chipping away of the achievements put in place by Margaret Thatcher (a wildly unfashionable point of view).

 

As for achievements, dramatically increasing government spending and achieving some, limited improvements in government services. A general increase in regulations, i feel safer and better cared for everyday:rolleyes: . Some major constitutional reforms forced through in a hurried fashion, still to early to say how they will pan out, except that they have brought about lots and lots of new politicians and bureaucrats.

 

Other than that, not sure.

[Aardvark]

I'm curious what is the traditional Labour position on immigration vs the other major parties? In broad strokes?

 

Broadly speaking, the Labour parties traditional attitude to immigration is that any attempts to restrict it are automatically racist. Anyone with concerns about immigration is therefore racist or 'pandering' to racism.