Steve Irwin: Conservationalist or "self-deluded animal torturer"

[bascule]

http://www.cnn.com/2006/SHOWBIZ/TV/09/06/death.irwin.greer/index.html?section=cnn_topstories

 

No better time to wait until someone dies than to criticize them. Germaine Greer, best known for her feminist book "The Female Eunuch", said Wednesday Irwin was an "embarrassment" and a "self-deluded animal torturer".

 

So... what do you think?

[gcol]

None of the above, in absolute terms.

 

Just a guy trying to earn a living, have some fun, and provide some insights and entertainment along the way.

 

Having earned a good living, he seems to have ploughed a lot of his loot back into conservation projects so overall more beneficial than not.

 

As for Germaine Greer, whose views as a TV pundit we in the U.K. at least, had to regularly suffer, was she not the arch champion of bra-burning? I wonder what contribution to atmospheric pollution that heated feminist activity made. Certainly no conservationist, was she

[Aardvark]

Some Australians got a bit embarrassed by Steve Irwin because he seemed to embody some Australian stereotypes. I can understand that, but think that reaction is a bit over sensitive.

 

And some people are just po faced kill joys.

 

Steve Irwin did a lot of good work in nature conservation and public education. He did it with gusto and good humour, that seems to automatically attract the envy and spite of a certain type of person.

 

If Steve Irwins actions caused any creatures discomfort then it was fleeting and much less than found on the average farm every day. In return he helped environmental protection..

 

A good man and a friend to the natural world.

[Glider]

I think he was a normal bloke.

 

I think he could be dumb on occasions and very irritating. I think he could have shown animals a bit more respect. You don't need to swing a mamba by the tail to study it. I think it was dumb that he took his baby son into the crocodile enclosure. Michael Jackson was blasted for dangling his over a balcony and I see no real difference. To anyone who says "Ah, he knew what he was doing, the baby was safe" I would say, stuff happens. People trip and make mistakes (you see it on 'You've Been Framed' all the time). Accidents happen and if that wasn't true Steve Irwin would still be alive. So, I think that was an unecessary risk. David Attenborough has been involved with animals for a lot longer and is still alive. But then, he don't poke them with sticks.

 

However, Steve Irwin was not a bad guy. He was strongly into conservation and he made it very popular with people who would otherwise have remained ignorant of the issues. He made it real for 'non-scientists'. He did a lot of excellent work and that will continue. As is the way of things, it might even bloom with the publicity of his death (the same principal that artists always sell more once they're dead).

 

As I say, I think he was a normal bloke who did some very good things. He could do dumb things (as normal blokes can), but in balance, if most normal blokes could balance the dumb things we all do with things as good as Steve Irwin has done, I think the world would be better for it.

[AzurePhoenix]

I've heard time and time again that the Irwin we saw on TV was the real him. Exhuberant and deeply heartfelt, excitable as a kid, who was truly devoted to the environment and it's protection. And half the people who say that also say how annoyingly energetic and chatty he was (one said something along the lines of "who is this nutter and why won't he shut-up?"), so it seems they weren't just praising him with lip-service . His entire life was conservation, he bought millions worth of land just to keep it from being developed, I don't think there can be any doubt about where his heart was.

 

I do however think he was a bit naive. While I don't think he put his son in any more danger at all then a normal parent strapping an infant in the car to drive somewhere, and that he should in no way be compared to the lunatic antics of Michael Jackson, I do think that he should have been responsible enough to realize that what he did might upset people with more testy perceptions of dangerous and not.

[GutZ]

One of the first episodes I saw was the greatest TV moment in my life. He was perched over this venomous snake talking about how deadly a bite was from one of these snakes. Like 30 secs after all you see is the snake go up and bite him in the hand. His face was so priceless, he runs to his book to check how serious it was, then the credit role with a helicopter lifting him and taking him to the hospital.

 

I laughed so hard. Since then I had respect for the guy.

[Heretic]

It is my strong belief that most feminists are "self-deluded sadistic man torturers".

[GutZ]

I don't think that is the subject at hand my friend.

[Heretic]

It was meant to be a joke... Though I'm not taking it back.

[Mokele]

First, I should say that Steve did do a lot to popularize reptiles, and show the more dangerous species as something more than just mindless killers.

 

That said, his stunts crossed the line beyond 'showing off' and into 'insanely dangerous', and for no good reason. He never used snake hooks or tongs (an essential for handling venomous snakes), often deliberately harrassed the animal into giving a response, and repeatedly put his camera crew, wife, and associates at risk with his behavior. He never taped the mouths of crocodiles, and the reasoning he cited was just plain bullshit. The stunt with the kid in croc enclosure was, IMNSHO, child endangerment of the kind that justifies placing the kid in a foster home. I've worked with crocs, I know how fast they can be and how crafty; if something had happened, the kid would have been eaten in a heatbeat. The fact that he lived as long as he did is mostly due to having good reflexes, rather than any real skill.

 

Then, the issue of the animals, and there's no two ways about this: Steve's handling methods were dangerous to the animals as well. The biggest issues, which he *repeatedly* did, were tailing vipers and not drugging crocs. Often, Steve would use tailing to control heavy-bodied ground vipers. While fine for the elapids he's used to, the spine of heavy vipers is *not* made to deal with this sort of stress. Every time he did that, he risked breaking the animal's back.

 

One of the basics of reptilian biology is that they primarily rely on anaerobic metabolism for powerful or fast movement. This means they have little stamina, and quickly give up and wear out as the lactic acid builds up. However, in very large reptiles, especially crocodilians, the animal has so much muscle, and fights so tenaciously and for so long that the lactic acid level in the blood can quickly build up to lethal levels. Several large crocs that have been captured have died shortly thereafter for precisely this reason. This isn't obscure trivia; *every* croc handler knows this, and Steve himself has mentioned it. Yet, in spite of this, he refuses to drug the animals once they get on land, presumably because it would make a better show.

 

I'm not saying he's a horrible person, but I'm not going to ignore his shoddy handling practices either. His heart was in the right place, but his methods should not be considered as anything but showboating which put himself, others, and the animals at risk.

 

Mokele

[Heretic]

He always said he didn't want to hurt the animals with drugs and I believe that.

 

I don't think the guy had a Ph.D. I think he just loved animals, especially crocs.

 

Just because people have a different belief system (albeit the wrong one in this case) doesn't mean they they are malicious (I don't think he did it for showboating), but you're right his practices should have been more critisized because to the general public he made it seem like his way was the ONLY way.

[intothevoidx]

One of the first episodes I saw was the greatest TV moment in my life. He was perched over this venomous snake talking about how deadly a bite was from one of these snakes. Like 30 secs after all you see is the snake go up and bite him in the hand. His face was so priceless' date=' he runs to his book to check how serious it was, then the credit role with a helicopter lifting him and taking him to the hospital.

 

I laughed so hard. Since then I had respect for the guy.[/quote']

 

 

I think you might be thinking of a different guy? Steve Irwin regularly claimed he had never been bitten by a venomous snake.

[Pangloss]

Can I have a poll entry for "the blind leading the blind"? I've never understood the whole "playing with fire" thing, much less the "let me show you how I play with fire" thing.

[wiggy]

He went to far a few times like feeding a hungry croc with his baby in his arms then dangling the kids feet in the water, but he DID do alot of good things, but then he did alot of bad things, or so it seemed unnessery things, but we arent all perfect. I have a australian friend and he doesnt like Steve because he protrays the typical aussie, the kin dof aussie we see on tv and are warned about LOL

[Mokele]

He always said he didn't want to hurt the animals with drugs and I believe that.

 

His motivations were fine, but doing the wrong thing for the right reasons, especially when it's easy to find the facts, doesn't fly. By not using drugs, he hurt them *more*, and he knew that.

 

I don't think the guy had a Ph.D. I think he just loved animals, especially crocs.

 

This isn't PhD stuff; I know plenty of people who don't even have undergrad biology degrees, but keep crocodilians as pets, and *they* know this stuff.

 

Just because people have a different belief system (albeit the wrong one in this case) doesn't mean they they are malicious

 

I don't think he was malicious. I think he was either ignorant (possibly willfuly) or just a show-off.

 

Can I have a poll entry for "the blind leading the blind"? I've never understood the whole "playing with fire" thing, much less the "let me show you how I play with fire" thing.

 

Playing with fire's fine, if you know how. Just ask anyone in the chemistry forum. It's when people who don't know what they're doing try it that people get hurt.

 

Mokele