More on the closure of Philosophy and Religion

[Sayonara]

For the last time, P&R is not dead.

 

Religious discussions are simply going elsewhere, and Philosophical discussions will most likely be given a new home here once we figure out the posting guidelines.

 

Just wait, goddammit. Don't make me fetch the stick.

[YT2095]

Jim, you`ve been making noises about leaving for quite a few days now, Just do it then *Sheesh!*

 

you KNOW the score (it`s been made Perfectly and abundantly clear), and still you don`t like it, so just GO.

[Pangloss]

You'll be missed, Jim. I hope you change your mind.

[abskebabs]

I think I was first dismayed at the closure of the P and R forum, as I wanted to discuss and give my input on recent events, yet couldn't. I did not want to piss of the moderators, so I avoided by posting religion related threads in other areas.

 

I'm glad to say though, that I am a little enthusiastic about this new Religion forum, although I do have a few qualms about whether this will be able to attract as many posters. Therefore, I make a suggestion which you may assess of your own will; Perhaps a permanent link could be provided to this alternative forum on this site, leading to a different website with clear conditions and guidelines on the expectations of the nature of debate on such a forum. Perhaps others who feel themselves dedicated to healthy, logical discussion on the subject area of religion could be appointed to help moderate that forum.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

abskebabs, that's the plan.

[iglak]

Jim's situation is very reminiscent of the problem that the P&R forums pose. these forums tend to bring in excessive emotion.

this tends to result in people getting connected to their opinions, and the forum in general.

 

leave if you want. stay if you want.

don't let anyone elsee influence your decisions. things like "we'll miss you" only complicates the emotions, which will be reflected in your posts.

 

or, you could simply take a break, like i tend to do a lot. leave the forum, but keep your account and keep the bookmark. come back in a few months when you think "oh hey, i forgot about that website. i wonder what the newest topics are."

 

 

 

or search for new forums. i frequented philosophyforums.com for a while.

i would still be there, but i was banned for "pseudophilosophy". i don't know why (no explanation was given beyond that, and my posts were all deleted). as far as i know, i was being completely objective and always had supporting evidence. so i question their validity a bit, but whatever.

 

 

 

and remember, as was already stated, P&R is not banned, it is simply now required that it be in proper context, and with proper scientific (which can be heavily philisophical anyway) basis.

 

having a new forum on philosophy and religion will be quite similar to the old P&R forums anyway. and probably better than most forums you could find by searching.

[CPL.Luke]

I think if there ould be any problem in the new religion forum it would be it attracting to many posters, whereas beore the philosophy and religion forum was buried inside of a science forum and thus made it so people would come here looking for science and find something a little extra. People who now google for religion forums will find the new sfn-religion forum, and so there is the danger of attracting more people who are unwilling to reason and just want to vent about how they hate such and such religion etc.

 

 

On the other hand its possible that the forum will attract alot more people interested in religious matters, and if it is properly moderated and the rules are clearly laid out it could become far better than what it was.

 

 

 

also as a sggestion can a political subforum be put into the new religion forum to better handle the political implications of religion?

[calbiterol]

Despite the fact that I am not sure that I ever posted in P&R, I am saddened to hear of it's closure. Some of the most enlightening conversations I have had were on P&R and I think my world-view has been improved because of them (I am referring to my life in general, not just on this board). In this respect, I agree with Jim and the others.

 

THAT BEING SAID,

what Cap'n Refsmmat said about abskebabs's post, if it indeed is true and I interpreted it correctly, sounds just fine to me. What I mean to say is that if there was a permalink in place of the forum that redirected to the other location, including explicit rules and a whole slew of moderators, with the same objective manner as the other forums here, I don't think anything would be lost. It sounds like the same user base is being kept, too - in which case, what's the difference? It's just like moving a thread from one forum to another - the link remains in the previous forum, it doesn't just disappear off the face of the earth.

 

That's my take on it, anyways. If we spirits have offended, think but this...: no harm was meant, and I understand the moderators' decision. Just my two cents.

[Skye]

I think the difference is that if you come to SFN and hit 'New Posts' you won't have a large proportion being religious discussion. That will allow science-minded members to focus on the science, and particularly it will allow science mods to focus on science threads. There are only so many hours in the day.

[Genecks]

Foremost, SFN is a science forum. It should be pretty clear by now that in most cases, science and religion just don't mix at all. - Dave

 

Science, religion, and philosophy do mix. You're claiming that they don't mix at all, thus they never mix. Yet the philosophy of mind (spirit) is of importance to neuroscience, cybernetics, and many other topics. Also, the way the universe works (the absolute, etc.) relates to physics, which often try to understand the universe in numbers (or a Pythagorean view). Although philosophers may have created views that have contributed toward science, religions have created theories, too. These theories that could contribute to science should not be thrown out all together. More than anything, philosophy covers ethics, politics, religion, and science.

 

Have you not heard of the philosophy of science?

 

What makes a theory a theory?

What makes a hypothesis a hypothesis?

 

Should we use euthanasia?

Should we not use euthanasia?

What do religions think about euthanasia?

Can we persuade religions to except science?

 

Is there something in their religion's philosophy that might allow science to be accepted in their lives?

 

On top of this, the debating on religious matters has started to spill over into some of the scientific areas, and this is starting to detract from the quality of posts that we have here. - Dave

 

I don't really see you giving any examples. I see details, but this unseen reality has me confused. I have no way of understanding the things your perceive, nor do I understand your grounds. Matter of fact, I don't believe an opinion is grounds enough to take out a forum.

 

Personally, I don't think that this is good in any shape or form.

 

Understood. Anything that takes away from the idea of science making a scientific forum is a 'bad thing.'

 

It was clear from talking to the mods and just skimming the threads that there's some pretty nasty debating going on there...

 

I don't really understand what you mean by "nasty." If you're talking about debates that simply turn into chaotic quarrels without logic, then you're talking about debates with lack of proper argumentation.

 

The thing that I've always liked about SFN is the community - we have a good bunch of people here, and it's been friendly and inviting to newcomers.

 

Good for you?

Yet it seems some of these people aren't too happy with your decision.

 

From my perspective, I could potentially see P&R ruining everything that we've built up, from the community to the quality of posts we have here.

 

Yet you've failed to give decent details and examples. Also, what's the possibility that it is helping the forum? Have you given any examples of what a 'decent' or 'not nasty' argument is? Why did you build the board in the first place? Did you have a set standard?

 

Now, for those of you who are regular contributors to the P&R forum, fear not! In the next few days, we should hopefully move over all of the posts and users from P&R to a new, clean forum.

 

This is where the problem exists. You are moving a section that is important and contributes to science to the margins of the Internet. You are trying to this a more secular board around science. Yet science did rise from philosophy. Putting something on the margins implies that it should not be seen or heard. Yet a small amount of people are stating this: Moderators and admins.

 

I believe the majority of persons would be willing to keep the board on. I haven't seen many comments from others. Some of the comments on the board seem to be a negative reaction to this action. Therefore, there may need to be adjustments.

 

Yet I believe that the P&R board should exist. It will allow people to understand philosophy and science and things that revolve around it. I suggest that it is reinstated, because it is a part of this forum that should remain active; and it is of interest to many. I propose that more moderators are created for the P&R board. A science based forum may seem like a good idea, but moving a section of importance implies that the board is to become more secular; and that is a problem.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Science, religion, and philosophy do mix. You're claiming that they don't mix at all, thus they never mix.

No, he's saying they don't mix most of the time.

Yet the philosophy of mind (spirit) is of importance to neuroscience, cybernetics, and many other topics. Also, the way the universe works (the absolute, etc.) relates to physics, which often try to understand the universe in numbers (or a Pythagorean view). Although philosophers may have created views that have contributed toward science, religions have created theories, too. These theories that could contribute to science should not be thrown out all together. More than anything, philosophy covers ethics, politics, religion, and science.

We are planning on having a plain Philosophy forum here on SFN, as has been stated earlier in this thread. Just no Religion forum.

 

Should we use euthanasia?

Should we not use euthanasia?

We do have a Biomedical Ethics forum.

 

I don't really see you giving any examples. I see details, but this unseen reality has me confused. I have no way of understanding the things your perceive, nor do I understand your grounds. Matter of fact, I don't believe an opinion is grounds enough to take out a forum.

It's not an opinion. Most of the reported posts we had to deal with, and most of the posts we had to delete, were in the Religion forum. Religion was the forum causing us the most trouble.

 

I don't really understand what you mean by "nasty." If you're talking about debates that simply turn into chaotic quarrels without logic, then you're talking about debates with lack of proper argumentation.

"Nasty" as in "filled with ad-hominems, insults, and not very much logic." We do tend to remove those, of course, so it's hard to give examples.

 

This is where the problem exists. You are moving a section that is important and contributes to science to the margins of the Internet. You are trying to this a more secular board around science. Yet science did rise from philosophy. Putting something on the margins implies that it should not be seen or heard. Yet a small amount of people are stating this: Moderators and admins.

For the FSM's sake, WE ARE KEEPING PHILOSOPHY. Please do pay attention.

 

I believe the majority of persons would be willing to keep the board on. I haven't seen many comments from others. Some of the comments on the board seem to be a negative reaction to this action. Therefore, there may need to be adjustments.

Okay, okay. How about this: Hold your judgment until we put in a Philosophy forum and set up the new site. Then, feel free to whine at us as much as you'd like. You may change our minds.

[YT2095]

actualy until the new site gets set up, you should ALL hold your fretfulness, nothing`s been Taken Away, Plenty will be Added as an adjunct, But in the fullness of Time!

 

Patience!