Is the politization of Accepted Medical practice harmful.

[Rebiu]

My son has Autism. There is a good-sized medical community in my town including a major medical center. None of the local doctors had a clue as to what causes Autism or how to treat it. We found a doctor in Florida who is a leading Autism expert. My son has shown tremendous improvement from his treatment.

 

It turns out that the causes of Autism are known and validated through medical research but mainstream medicine will not acknowledge this. There are many reasons among them are; medical insurance does not want to cover treatment, the government does not want to treat medical card recipients, the vaccine manufacturers do not want the liability and profitability of their activities affected.

 

There are several other supposedly unexplained illnesses who’s causes are not acknowledged by the mainstream but can be treated by specialists if you can pay out of pocket. These include Multiple Sclerosis and Krones.

[Aardvark]

We found a doctor in Florida who is a leading Autism expert. My son has shown tremendous improvement from his treatment.

 

I'm happy for you, i hope that continues.

 

It turns out that the causes of Autism are known and validated through medical research but mainstream medicine will not acknowledge this.

 

Be careful about being drawn into conspiracy theory paranoia here. Even the phrase 'mainstream medicine' is pretty meaningless.

 

There are many reasons among them are; medical insurance does not want to cover treatment, the government does not want to treat medical card recipients,

 

If that was true then countries that don't rely on medical insurance and medical cards (whatever they are?) would have no incentive to cover up this matter. Why hasn't Italy or Sweden or Cuba or Saudi Arabia recognised these reasons?

 

the vaccine manufacturers do not want the liability and profitability of their activities affected.

 

Are you refering to the theory that some vaccinations may trigger autism? If you are then you should know that this theory is definitely not proven and that if it were true then the vaccine manufacturers would not be able to cover it up. The theory that autism is genetic looks more promising.

 

There are several other supposedly unexplained illnesses who’s causes are not acknowledged by the mainstream but can be treated by specialists if you can pay out of pocket. These include Multiple Sclerosis and Krones.

 

There are lots of people willing to offer hope to the desperate, to people desperate to believe. There are a lot of charlatans out there. The idea that 'mainstream medicine' would cover up treatments for Multiple Sclerosis or anyother chronic conditions is fantastic. It flys in the face of reason.

 

Even if an organisation did have the motive and ability to repress a treatment in one country, it could not do so everywhere. Afterall, what power do US pharmaceutical companies have in Cuba or France or Japan or Brazil? The idea of medical coverups for the profit of some undefined groups is simply fantasy.

[Severian]

The idea that 'mainstream medicine' would cover up treatments for Multiple Sclerosis or anyother chronic conditions is fantastic.

 

It is not so much covering up - it is denying treatment on the basis of cost. The drugs in question are very expensive, so insurance companies don't want to pay for them. They put pressure on medical groups not to properly validate them for normal use because they are so expensive.

 

This even happens with the UK's NHS. There was recently a big fuss that MS drugs are no longer available on the NHS because they are deemed too expensive.

[Aardvark]

It is not so much covering up - it is denying treatment on the basis of cost. The drugs in question are very expensive, so insurance companies don't want to pay for them. They put pressure on medical groups not to properly validate them for normal use because they are so expensive.

 

That is not what Reibu claimed or what i was refering to.

 

Reibu stated that the causes of such conditions as Autism and multiple sclerosis are known but 'mainstream' medicine with not 'acknowledge' them and denies the existence of treatments.

 

This even happens with the UK's NHS. There was recently a big fuss that MS drugs are no longer available on the NHS because they are deemed too expensive.

 

That is a completely irrelevant sidetrack.

 

We are not prefering to the cost of treatments, we are refering to treatments being kept secret. In the case of the NHS a completely open decision was made on whether to fund different treatments, agree or disagree with the decisions, there was never any attempt hide or deny th existence of such treatments.

 

We are not discussing difficult cost benefit decisions, but Reibus's belief that certain treatments are being kept secret.

[Severian]

Apologies if I misunderstood the OP - I thought he was saying that the treatments are not acknowledged by the medical insurers and government for financial reasons, rather than being kept a secret.

 

After all, he did get the treatment by paying for it privately.

[Aardvark]

Apologies if I misunderstood the OP - I thought he was saying that the treatments are not acknowledged by the medical insurers and government for financial reasons, rather than being kept a secret.

 

After all, he did get the treatment by paying for it privately.

 

 

Point accepted, Reibus's post is somewhat confused and self contradictory in my opinion, but he does state that certain causes and treatments for chronic conditions are being flatly denied which is more than just making a difficult financial choice. He then states that he has found people, presumably outside 'mainstream' medicine who, for a fee, will provide erstwhile secret treatments.

 

I think Reibus is in danger of slipping into a whole host of the delusions so apparent in the internet, secret cures for cancer suppressed by drug companies, secret conspiracies......

[Rebiu]

I assume you are aware of the provisions Bush added to the Homeland Security Bill to dissallow the sueing of Vaccine companies over damages caused by their products. Why?

Then he wants to cancel this major research into the causes of childhood illness.

Bush kills children's study

Why would he do this if the cause of Autism is not known and is at epedemic levels. Can you say major campaign contributor.

 

It seems you substitute personal attacks in place of a well stated position. I suggest you know little to nothing about the issue and are trying to cover your ignorance with the broad brush of "whole host of the delusions so apparent in the internet, secret cures for cancer suppressed by drug companies, secret conspiracies......"It seems that all of you discussion degenerate into this when you are pressed on facts.

[Pangloss]

I disagree, in fact I think Aardvark's post is an acceptable analysis of your position, and your post is an attack on him personally. And I've acted accordingly. Further digression will not be tolerated.

[Rebiu]

I disagree, in fact I think Aardvark's post is an acceptable analysis of your position, and your post is an attack on him personally. And I've acted accordingly. Further digression will not be tolerated.

What did you do? What does I've acted accordingly mean. I have recieved no warnings. The post has not been locked so what are you talking about.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

If you think we understand autism well, you are badly mistaken. It is only recently that researchers came up with a possible cause for it. Current treatments treat the symptoms, not the disease.

[Mokele]

If there's evidence for this other cause, where is it? References, please.

[Nevermore]

Some crackpot says TV triggers autism. Ignore the fact that it's a genetic problem triggered invitro or as an infant at the latest. Nope, it's definatly TV. http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2087-2415983,00.html

[Rebiu]

If there's evidence for this other cause, where is it? References, please.

Here is the link. Autism Research Institute

Here is a link to an earlier thread on the issue Rebiu thread

[Rebiu]

If you think we understand autism well, you are badly mistaken. It is only recently that researchers came up with a possible cause for it. Current treatments treat the symptoms, not the disease.

This little gem of a link is the extent of you knowledge on the issue? Perhaps it is you desire to speak out against me that causes you to condescent from such a lowly and tenuous knowledge base.

 

Does this sound like a delusion

"The Centers for Disease Control and the American Academy of Pediatrics have issued a statement asserting that “the available scientific evidence has not shown thimerosal-containing vaccines to be harmful.” Their statement is false. Following are some of the scientific studies that demonstrate thimerosal, a mercury-containing substance that is used as a preservative, to be harmful and to be a highly probably causal factor in autism. Note that these studies are consistently ignored in the medical establishment’s publications claiming that there is no evidence for vaccine-caused autism."The Vaccine-Autism Connection – Part I (Thimerosal), The Vaccine-Autism Connection – Part II (MMR)

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg18124380.300.html

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn3028

 

That study was proved to be wrong.

[Mokele]

Seriously, the vaccine-autism link has been so thoroughly debunked that clinging to it, even out of misplaced hope, is just pathetic.

 

Look at the site you linked to: a crappy webpage for a society with *no* peer review pubs to back up it's ludicrous claims.

 

Hang on, give me 3 hours and I can whip up a site claiming scientific evidence that autism is caused by exposure to cross-eyed turtles. Better keep the kids away from the ponds!

 

I appreciate that your son's condition is hard on you, and you badly wish there was a way to fix it, but clinging to obsolete conspiracy theories will get you nowhere and give you nothing but false hope.

 

Mokele

[Rebiu]

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg18124380.300.html

http://www.newscientist.com/article.ns?id=dn3028

 

That study was proved to be wrong.

This retraction is so obviously political. Yes they said the particular study had not been large enough not that the participants were conspiratorial, cooks, or even mistaken.. This only means that the study that was killed by Bush was intended to answer this perceived shortcoming of insufficient study size. These issues are addressed on the site. I suggest you do some real analysis of the information rather than a keyword search on google.

[Rebiu]

Seriously, the vaccine-autism link has been so thoroughly debunked that clinging to it, even out of misplaced hope, is just pathetic.

 

Look at the site you linked to: a crappy webpage for a society with *no* peer review pubs to back up it's ludicrous claims.

Please provide links to this thorough debunking as I provide links to my sources.

 

I appreciate that your son's condition is hard on you, and you badly wish there was a way to fix it, but clinging to obsolete conspiracy theories will get you nowhere and give you nothing but false hope.

 

Mokele

He has been following the treatment regiment of the number one DAN doctor in the country and is now talking and showing tremendous improvement from my "clinging to obsolete conspiracy theories".

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

This retraction is so obviously political. Yes they said the particular study had not been large enough not that the participants were conspiratorial, cooks, or even mistaken.. This only means that the study that was killed by Bush was intended to answer this perceived shortcoming of insufficient study size. These issues are addressed on the site. I suggest you do some real analysis of the information rather than a keyword search on google.

 

Please read my second link again.

[blike]

"A Population Based Study of Measles, Mumps

and Rubella Vaccination and Autism." The New England Journal of Medicine (vol 347, p 1477). This study involved half a million kids. The incidence of autism in vaccinated children was not statistically different than the incidence of autism in unvaccinated children. That's a big sample.

 

I understand that as a parent you have an emotional tie to the subject, but I want to encourage you to be careful about leting your guard down. Excercise your sense of skepticism just as you would with other subjects that you are not as emotionally involved with. You need to be able to approach the situation rationally and realistically without falling into the trap of false hopes which will let you down time and time again--and that's better for you and your child. Good luck in your searches.

[Rebiu]

"A Population Based Study of Measles, Mumps

and Rubella Vaccination and Autism." The New England Journal of Medicine (vol 347, p 1477). This study involved half a million kids. The incidence of autism in vaccinated children was not statistically different than the incidence of autism in unvaccinated children. That's a big sample.

Why only the one Vaccine? Why not all child Vaccines? This study is a strawman. The study that Bushed killed was comprehensive as to other childhood diseases and causes. Let me refer to this part of the article

"But SafeMinds, an anti-vaccination advocacy group based in New Jersey, US, says that the study does not settle the argument. It failed to analyse separately the incidence of the specific sub-type of autism claimed to be caused by the vaccine, the group says.

 

"Regressive autism" accounts for 10 to 20 per cent of autism cases. Children develop normally at first but suddenly regress to autism following bouts of medical problems."

There was an adjustment in the study for potential confounders and the results found a .83 percent chance in nonvaccinated group for Autism spectrum disorders. Furthermore they used Danish Psychiatric Central Register for their Autism diagnosis. This will underrepresent the mild ASD cases that never see a doctor.Abstract

 

I understand that as a parent you have an emotional tie to the subject, but I want to encourage you to be careful about leting your guard down. Excercise your sense of skepticism just as you would with other subjects that you are not as emotionally involved with. You need to be able to approach the situation rationally and realistically without falling into the trap of false hopes which will let you down time and time again--and that's better for you and your child. Good luck in your searches.

So far as false hopes let me repeat the treatments administered by the DAN certified doctor are curing my son. His talking, eye contact and all other diagnostic metrics improve with the treatment and regress with the cessation of treatment.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

The treatment he is receiving has nothing to do with vaccinations, nor our understanding of autism. The drugs currently in use treat the symptoms, not the disease.

 

Even so, anecdotes do not make evidence.

[Rebiu]

This link Something Rotten In Denmark

 

I refer you to the conclusion where it says recent articles on Autism and vaccines from Denmark were conducted and published by a cohesive network of authors with indirect or direct ties to the major Danish manufacturer of the drugs they were investigating. The company is Staten Serum Institut.

 

This is a clear conflict of interest.

[Rebiu]

The treatment he is receiving has nothing to do with vaccinations, nor our understanding of autism. The drugs currently in use treat the symptoms, not the disease.

 

Even so, anecdotes do not make evidence.

He receives chelating agents to draw the heavy metals form his body and supplements to replace what his damaged body is lacking.

[blike]

So far as false hopes let me repeat the treatments administered by the DAN certified doctor are curing my son. His talking, eye contact and all other diagnostic metrics improve with the treatment and regress with the cessation of treatment.

Good, I am happy to hear your son is receiving benefit from the treatment. I am just asking you to be careful.