Telekinesis

[herme3]

Herme3, what is your major?

 

 

Computer science.

 

 

have peresonally experienced psychic powers' date=' where i can predict things. i have successfully predicted which elevator (out of 4) would pick me up 10 times in a row (i only started trying 10 elevators ago). the first 8 weere done at a scifi convention. 4 of them involved 4 elevators coming toward my floor at the same time. 2 of them involved an elevator stopping at my floor, but going in the wrong direction. i didn't just guess, i position myself in the middle of them, facing toward one of the halls, close my eyes, and i literally feel which one it will be.

 

i've done those prediction which card will turn over things before too. i always successfully predict the first 3-4 (and i know beforehand that i'm right). then the next few i have a gut feeling, but instead go with what my brain predicts, and my gut feeling turns out right. then the rest, i get so confused that i have no idea, so i just randomly guess. the result turns out to be no better than statistically plausible.

 

it's quite possible to be psychic in relation to many things, but it's very easy to confuse what you're feeling with something else.[/quote']

 

 

It would be amazing if what you say is true. However, it sounds just like other people who have never been able to prove anything to the real scientists. If your abilities are real, why don't you prove it to the world using scientific experiments?

Edited December 9, 2010 by herme3

[iglak]

1) If someone could do that under controlled conditions, James Randi would pay them $1,000,000.

 

2) Ugh, can we keep this discussion scientific or move it to pseudoscience? This is really getting ridiculous.

 

3) Chi doesn't exist.

You aren't psychic.

Brain waves cannot influence objects in your outside environment.

Period.

1) when i learn to do it, i'll definitely get that prize.

2) let me reprase that: "i have personally experienced feelings that i cannot describe in any way other than 'psychic powers', recognizing that 'psychic powers' is a very general term that could easily apply to sensations that are too small to be noticed."

everything i said is very real. how or why i feel that way, i have no idea. it could very well be that i'm feeling something simply because i want to.

 

the problem is, whenever 'psychic powers' are mentioned, it has to involve pseudoscience unless you're not willing to mention or explore all possibilities.

3) none of those are definite statements. and all of them are biased.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qigong

http://www.matzkefamily.net/doug/papers/tucson2b.html

http://www.meaningoflife.i12.com/taichi.htm

 

Chi is not something that does or does not exist. Chi is something that many people know for a fact exists, because they can feel it in their bodies, and in other people. i have myself felt something along the lines of Chi, but i have no idea if it actually is Chi or not until i experiment with it a lot more. yet the scientific community believes that chi is not worth experimentation, and thus chose not to waste time trying to perform reliable experiments. most scientific experiments to date have not shown any evidence for or against chi.

 

also, Chi is not a single thing, Chi includes 8 different things. Taoism teaches that there are 8 bodies. the first is the physical body. the second is the chi body, which directs the physical body (i think it's simply electricity). the third is the emotional body. the fourth is the mental body, which deals with what is real or fake. the fifth is the psychic body, which includes most common psychic abilities (i don't know if i believe in that. i haven't felt the 5th body or above yet). i don't know much about the 6th, 7th, or 8th bodies. i know the 6th deals with causality, and the 7th deals with chaos. and the 8th is supposedly the Tao itself, which is like everything, or god, or whatever. each body vibrates at a higher frequency than the previous bodies, and also encompases a larger area. the second body extends 3-24 inches away from the physical body. the emotional body extends something like 10-50 feet away from the physical body. some teachings say the emotional body can extend over the entire planet, but geenerally people say it encompasses a single room. the 8th body supposedly encompases the universe.

all of these bodies are different chis.

 

i would say that hammerhead sharks sense the 2nd body of it's prey, but i have no idea. and anything beyond that, i have no idea if it can really be sensed in other people, because i have not explicitly sensed it myself.

the point is, though, that it all remains a possibility, because it hasn't been sufficiently scientifically studied, and because i and a few people i know have definitely felt something beyond our physical senses.

 

well That:

is going to be a little Tricky isn`t it:confused:

especialy when you go on to say:

just a thought:rolleyes:

you're right ^^

i should have said: avoid mainstream advertised chemicals. especially chlorine and flourine (i don't remember ever seeing H2O2 and baking soda advertised).

there's so much wrong with our food that i can't at all give a list of stuff to avoid, and it's nearly impossible to avoid it all. just be careful is all.

 

It would be amazing if what you say is true. However, it sounds just like other people who have never been able to prove anything to the real scientists. If your abilities are real, why don't you prove it to the world using scientific experiments?

because i can't.

because 1) i don't have the ability to perform scientific experiments (unless you include things like predicting which elevator will pick me up).

and 2) i haven't ever really tried to do anything more than what i said above. it's not an ability that people have or they don't, it's an ability that's akin to controlling your heartrate, or your emotions. it comes from lots of meditation on it, and i haven't ever tried. i'm working on controlling my emotions first.

and 3) these 'scientific experiments' aren't accurate. like i explained about the 5 different cards experiment. i have a feeling for the first few, then i lose sight of my feeling for the next few, then i have no feeling at all for the rest. the feeling itself is the 'psychic' aspect of it. for a scientific experiment to say "# predicted correctly out of #" is just wrong.

a true scientific experiment with the cards would be, "# preedicted correctly out of #. # predicted correctly out of # the experimentee knew would be predicted correctly . # predicted correctly out of # the experimentee did not know would be predicted correctly."

[bascule]

when i learn to do it, i'll definitely get that prize.

 

Hundreds of people before you have sworn the same. All have been exposed as frauds by Randi, most notably spoon bending nutjob Uri Geller. Following being exposed as a fraud by Randi, Uri began a rapid decline into obscurity.

 

let me reprase that: "i have personally experienced feelings that i cannot describe in any way other than 'psychic powers', recognizing that 'psychic powers' is a very general term that could easily apply to sensations that are too small to be noticed.

 

Sounds like unfalsifiable anecdotal evidence to me.

 

everything i said is very real. how or why i feel that way, i have no idea. it could very well be that i'm feeling something simply because i want to.

 

Yes, that would be the nature of cognitive bias.

 

Chi is not something that does or does not exist.

 

Chi does not exist.

 

Chi is something that many people know for a fact exists, because they can feel it in their bodies, and in other people. i have myself felt something along the lines of Chi, but i have no idea if it actually is Chi or not until i experiment with it a lot more.

 

Just because people feel something exists doesn't make it a fact

 

yet the scientific community believes that chi is not worth experimentation, and thus chose not to waste time trying to perform reliable experiments. most scientific experiments to date have not shown any evidence for or against chi.

 

Quantum mechanics has provided us with a scientific understanding of what fields exists and how they interact. Chi does not exist in the standard model, sorry.

 

also, Chi is not a single thing, Chi includes 8 different things. Taoism teaches that there are 8 bodies. the first is the physical body. the second is the chi body, which directs the physical body (i think it's simply electricity). the third is the emotional body. the fourth is the mental body, which deals with what is real or fake. the fifth is the psychic body, which includes most common psychic abilities (i don't know if i believe in that. i haven't felt the 5th body or above yet). i don't know much about the 6th, 7th, or 8th bodies. i know the 6th deals with causality, and the 7th deals with chaos. and the 8th is supposedly the Tao itself, which is like everything, or god, or whatever. each body vibrates at a higher frequency than the previous bodies, and also encompases a larger area. the second body extends 3-24 inches away from the physical body. the emotional body extends something like 10-50 feet away from the physical body. some teachings say the emotional body can extend over the entire planet, but geenerally people say it encompasses a single room. the 8th body supposedly encompases the universe.

all of these bodies are different chis.

 

This is nonsense in the light of our modern understanding of physics, biology, and medicine.

 

i would say that hammerhead sharks sense the 2nd body of it's prey, but i have no idea.

 

Sharks have a remarkably developed sense of olfaction as well as the ability to sense electrically the movements of their prey. Both of these represent well understood scientific mechanisms which are consistent with physics, chemistry, and our understanding of a shark's biology. There's no "chi" involved.

 

and anything beyond that, i have no idea if it can really be sensed in other people, because i have not explicitly sensed it myself.

the point is, though, that it all remains a possibility, because it hasn't been sufficiently scientifically studied, and because i and a few people i know have definitely felt something beyond our physical senses.

 

Yes, it goes in the same bin of "possibilities" as vampires, leprichauns, Zeus, manticores, Dionysus, chimeras, satyrs, griffons, Cerberus, etc. While the non-existence of these entities cannot be proven, they are completely unevidenced, and therefore not worth consideration.

[Edtharan]

Telekinesis will exist in the future. Here's how it works:

 

Information will be transmitted via a brain/computer interface to a control system, which will interpret the commands sent by your brain and determine what actions should be taken.

 

The computer responding to the commands will then actuate any number of devices. For example, you could will the lights on and off, but rather than flipping a switch, a computer would respond to your request and actuate a relay in order to accomplish this task. You're still flipping a switch with your mind, but in reality, technology is translating neural impulses into an electrical signal which uses an electromagnetic field to flip the switch.

 

This probably isn't what you had in mind herme3, but if you really want telekinesis, technology is the only answer.

I have actually had the experience of using a device that could do things like this. It used an EEG to measure certain brain activity. It then translated the strengths of these into motions of a mouse pointer on a computer screen. This allowed the user (with sufficent practice - around 20 minutes was enough to establish basic control) to draw on the screen (there was one of these brain "waves" that determined the colour).

 

It was crude (mainly because it was non invasive and only working off large scale fluctuations in brain activity) and not very accurate, but you did have mental control over a piece of technology (it could have been translated into the motions of a robotic arm just as easily).

 

So, yes we have technology today that can do what you are hopeing for the future (which meamns its not all that science fiction and could easily becaome a reality in afew years).

 

When I was younger (around 16) I stared looking for that "Something else" that I though would give menaing to life. I was a bit of a loner and didn't interact with people much (so I was in a similar boat to Herme3). I started looking into psychic phenomina.

 

During this time I realised something that shattered my belief in these things. Waht I realised was that if such powers existed, then they would give an amazing survival advantage to any animal that could use them. If a prey species could see the future then they could avoid any predator as they would have foreknowledge of the event. If they could comunicate through telepathy, then they would have no need for biologially expensive chemical signaling, or otehr comunications (being heard by a predator while trying to hide is not good for survival).

 

There would be so many obvious advantages, eve for an unpredictable power, that if it existed, then evolution would definitly enhance this ability in any animal that had it. It would become the defacto abilities of this createature. It would make them almost invunerable to predation, etc. They would also have no need for technological development, etc.

 

What this means is that if these powers did really exist, then they should be found everywhere in the animal kingdom, every creature would have some ability in them (take telekinesis, if a predator jumped at you, you could just fling them away, or maybe an animal might use it to pick fruit from the highest branches and so would have no need to risk their neck by climbing up there, etc). As this is clearly not th case, these effects can therfore not exist.

 

This means that no matter how much we would like these things to exist, or how much we thinkwe have had experiences of them, they could not posibly be psychic phenomina, either it would be common place, or non existant adn since it is not common place, they don't exist.

 

Now for a bit of fun:

Here si a "Magic Trick" that seems to demonstrate my telekinetic powers (as well as the ability to read minds).

 

Follow these instructions carfully and exactly and you will be amazed at my powers...

1) Take a full deck of standard playing cards.

2) Pick a suit and take all those cards from the deck to use (discard the rest)

3) Now take the cards of that suit and pick a number between 1 and 5.

4) Discard that many cards from what you have.

5) Shuffle these cards then look and remember the bottom card.

 

It is this card that I am going to read from your mind and then using my vast an powerful telekinetic powers, I will pull this card from the deck.

 

Now to link you mind with mine we will need to use a mental charm. This will be "Psychic Resonance", also the name of this effect. When ever I detect this charm I will know that there is someone attempting to make contact with these cards and I will beable to excert my powers over them.

 

6) You will need to repeat this charm in a specific way for this to work. I want you to say each letter of this charm (p, s, y, c, h, i , c , r , e , s , o , n, a, n, c, e) and as you do so, move the top card of your pile to the bottom of the pile.

7) Now to complete the connection you will need to do waht is sometimes refered to as the australian deal (the down under deal). To do this you need to

A) take the top card and place it onto the table (the down), then

B) take the next card and put it on the bottom of the deck (the under).

C) Repeat A and B in order until you are left with one card. Now if we have been able to make a proper conncetion the card you are left with is the card that you were asked to remember.

 

Now to prove that this is not just a simple trick you can perform this again and again and even select a differnet number of cards to discad in steps 3 and 4. And since I am not touching the cards you can;'t put this one down to sleight of hand...

 

Actually this is just a mathematical trick. Ther is no real magic or psychic powers, but it is fun to do and you can even use this on other people to sow off your own skills.

 

It works good if you get 4 people to try it (one for each suit in the deck) and they each choose a different number of cards to discard.

 

Have fun.

[iglak]

1) Hundreds of people before you have sworn the same. All have been exposed as frauds by Randi, most notably spoon bending nutjob Uri Geller. Following being exposed as a fraud by Randi, Uri began a rapid decline into obscurity.

 

2) Sounds like unfalsifiable anecdotal evidence to me.

 

3) Yes, that would be the nature of cognitive bias.

 

4) Just because people feel something exists doesn't make it a fact

 

5) Quantum mechanics has provided us with a scientific understanding of what fields exists and how they interact. Chi does not exist in the standard model, sorry.

 

6) This is nonsense in the light of our modern understanding of physics, biology, and medicine.

 

7) Sharks have a remarkably developed sense of olfaction as well as the ability to sense electrically the movements of their prey. Both of these represent well understood scientific mechanisms which are consistent with physics, chemistry, and our understanding of a shark's biology. There's no "chi" involved.

 

8) Yes, it goes in the same bin of "possibilities" as vampires, leprichauns, Zeus, manticores, Dionysus, chimeras, satyrs, griffons, Cerberus, etc. While the non-existence of these entities cannot be proven, they are completely unevidenced, and therefore not worth consideration.

1) yeah, Uri Geller was quite obviously fake. or rather, had nothing to do with psychic abilities. and i don't know anything about Randi.

 

2) nah. it's falsifiable, but only if it's heavily and accurately studied.

 

3) yes. that was my point. that it's possible it's a cognitive bias.

 

4) true. let me again rephrase that: "chi is something many people believe exists because they can feel it." however, some of these people are bound to be very simplt cognitively biased.

 

5) that's not true. chi simply isn't mentioned in the current model. there have been no quantum experiments involving chi, so there's no way anyone could know if chi works with the current model or not.

 

6) well, the first 4 bodies are completely true. the physical body is completely understood. as i said, i believe the chi body is simply electricity, implying neurons, and probably deals with heat too, implying blood flow. the 3rd and 4th bodies are both understood by psychology (the 4th level is somewhat advanced psychology). the 3rd level is emotions. those are quite well understood, and definitely real, and are caused by horomones, and i think by some chemical balances in the brain (and i've heard a claim of neurons surrounding the heart, but i have no idea about the validity of that). the 4th body is more complicated, but is definitely real. it deals with recognition of the difference between a person's "mask", and who the person truly is underneath the "mask". the 4th body also deals with the difference between what someone desires, and what someone actually does. i'm guessing that "real and false" is mostly chemical balances in the brain.

it's the 5th, 6th, 7th, and 8th bodies that are currently understood as nonsense (i don't really believe them either yet, because i'm still discovering the 5th body).

 

7) that was actually my entire point. that the 2nd body is probably electricity (and i just realized, probably heat also). meaning neurons and blood flow. the 3rd body, emotions, deals heavily with horomones, which are often designed to be smelled by other people, even subtely. horomones could realistically travel through the size of a room.

the 4th body... i have no idea how that's sensed. i have a good recognition of it in other people, and i think i sense it by sensing very subtle variations in other senses. i usually see it in people's faces (they look relatively blank if they're being false).

as for the 5th body: psychic "vibes" people can get from other people or objects even without the use of sight or hearing, i have no idea. but i have observed evidence that it is possible in some way or another (without petty tricks). also, the extent of which it is possible, i have no idea. i don't yet believe in ghosts or precognition or clairvoyance or telekinesis.

 

8) chi is not in the same bin as mythical beasts. you mentioned a lot of beasts there, but they're all lumped into the category of "mythical entities". chi is not the same because 1) it's form is extremely variable and misunderstood 2) many people have realistically sensed it 3) there hasn't been much reliable evidence for or against it through scientific methods.

[mike90]

Well herme I have some relatively minor " psychic powers" ( hate that term) and have a small group of friends with similar "abilities" . I have never experienced someone being able to physically affect anything with their minds, but I have known people that could read others thoughts and feelings, and I can do this to a limited extent myself.

 

Its not like your thinking it is. My abilities are largely uncontrollable and seem to reach out on their own independent of my wishes to wreak havoc on my life from time to time. I have to be careful to keep my mind gaurded as its easy to get yourself into bad situations meddling around with something you don't understand.

 

In fact i spend a fair amount of time wishing I didn't have said "abilities" as they seem to pretty actively interfere with me having a normal life at all

[Megrim]

Well herme I have some relatively minor " psychic powers" ( hate that term) and have a small group of friends with similar "abilities" . I have never experienced someone being able to physically affect anything with their minds, but I have known people that could read others thoughts and feelings, and I can do this to a limited extent myself.

 

Its not like your thinking it is. My abilities are largely uncontrollable and seem to reach out on their own independent of my wishes to wreak havoc on my life from time to time. I have to be careful to keep my mind gaurded as its easy to get yourself into bad situations meddling around with something you don't understand.

 

In fact i spend a fair amount of time wishing I didn't have said "abilities" as they seem to pretty actively interfere with me having a normal life at all

 

*smiles* it's probably not relevant now as i see this post is from years ago and chances are you won't get this as you will no longer be with the forum.

From my experience, people with abilities tend to attract each other, i guess they have certain personalities? well whatever the case be careful, even mind readers know not to read deep into things. i could be thinking something but it doesn't mean that's who i choose to be. a little word of advise. as for the havoc, ... yes, not all to pleasant as it is a double edged sword and cuts both ways. i'd probably like to say i can control weather, but the truth is i pissed off a personality who could. i guess you can draw it to you but be careful not to piss anyone off while doing it.

there are things out there ... i guess poweful spirits maybe, you don't want to control, you want to connect with them. Superhuman speed, now that's really fun but even if i can't do something like that at will it's nice knowing it's there, i won't ever become a bystander, i am a pacifist, within reason but i don't want to be someone believes there is nothing they can do, there is always more! -i'm not the hero type anyway, these things kick in with me at hightened emotions or sometimes randomly. it's cool randomly being able to see behind you. though what i'd like to control is myself, *sigh* my worst fear is seeing what i love destroyed in front of me as a consequence of my own actions.

Anyway, i'm sure a lot has happened in that time since you were on the forum and if you're still here than hi! yay! some random message, is it relevant? ... it's late so i'm feeling generous, that and i have plenty of personalities! (ok, this won't be deleted!), eh, tsukareta. Read Sophie's world or Sofie's verden, great book and helpful.

From some random person who is tired and is avoiding doing their work.

[VedekPako]

Telekinesis is not mind control or being able to "Charm" people. It's simply moving physical objects with your mind. Like moving a chair or a person (yourself).

 

Like so in the movie, Push.

 

[mooeypoo]

"simply" ?

[VedekPako]

The OP wants power to control is world. The best form of power is social power. The ability to lead and manipulate groups of people to your will.

 

Take a public speaking class and read critical thinking books, Machiavelli and Sun Tzu.

 

Then practice working with people.

 

"simply" ?

 

 

You mean you can't move objects with your mind?

 

I thought everyone could.

[mooeypoo]

You know, seeing as the mind controls the body, it seems that technically, every time I move a chair I am moving it with my mind.

[Bob_for_short]

You know, seeing as the mind controls the body, it seems that technically, every time I move a chair I am moving it with my mind.

 

A chair is easy. How about this:

 

 

Edited February 18, 2010 by Bob_for_short

[mooeypoo]

MAGIC!!!!!!

 

 

 

Awesome demo, Bob_for_short

[Kyrisch]

How exactly does that work, Bob?

[Bob_for_short]

How exactly does that work, Bob?

 

See the following thread:

 

http://www.scienceforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=47617