photo of Mars rover at edge of crater taken from orbit

[Martin]

http://rivelles.blogspot.com/2006/10/pictures-from-mars.html

 

the tracks of the rover, Opportunity, as it approached the Victoria crater are visible from overhead, as is the rover itself (a tiny speck at the crater edge)

 

nice shot of the crater.

[Spyman]

More (high resolution) pictures: http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20061006a.html

[RyanJ]

Those are ptryy impressive, thanks for posting them guys!

 

-- Ryan Jones

[Ophiolite]

If the mission controllers decide to descend into the crater (and how could they resist?) this is likely where Opportunity will remain.

a) It is unlikely that the rover will still be functioning after it has completed a lengthy study of the crater - it has already exceeded its official design life by a factor of ten.

b) It can handle a 20 degree slope on firm ground. There is a good chance there will be no practical route back out once it is in.

 

So, there it will remain till an independent Mars government sets up a tourist observation site on the rim of the crater in 2134.

[Martin]

hello Ophi, glad to see you!

it has been a while---our threads haven't crossed all that often in the past few months

 

 

have you any further information about what they plan to do?

you are the geologist---what would you expect to learn by venturing down into crater?

 

without specific knowledge, I'd be afraid of tumbling-----or encountering a too-steep incline and being unable to turn around and clamber back up

[Spyman]

It can handle a 20 degree slope on firm ground.

 

Before they sent Opportunity down into Endurance Crater they did successfully tests here on Earth with 25 degrees tilt.

 

From JPL press release:

"We have done testing that says we can do 25 degrees, provided the wheels are on a rock surface and not loose sand," Cook said. Engineers and scientists on the rover team built a test surface mimicking the rocks and sand seen in Opportunity's images of Endurance Crater. The surface was tilted to 25 degrees, and a test rover climbed it.

 

At Base of 'Burns Cliff' http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/press/opportunity/20041213a.html

From JPL press release:

The rover was on ground with a slope of about 30 degrees when the pictures were taken.

[Ophiolite]

Before they sent Opportunity down into Endurance Crater they did successfully tests here on Earth with 25 degrees tilt.

Absolutely correct. I was quoting the 20 degrees from memory. The problem is that the rover is getting older and more worn out all the time. Even a fifteen degree incline on difficult ground could be too much for it by the time it is ready to leave.

On the plus side, you may have noted my reference to the 'official' life span of the rovers. It seems to have been a tradition for interplanetary probes to be constructed much more robustly than the specifications call for. So, who knows how much longer they may keep going.

hello Ophi' date=' glad to see you!

it has been a while---our threads haven't crossed all that often in the past few months

[/quote']Thank you Martin. I have been away for many months. I became disenchanted with the imperious attitude taken by some of the moderators and decided I needed to take a break before I said something someone would regret. [i hope I don't need to say that you were very definitely not one of the guilty parties.]

what would you expect to learn by venturing down into crater?

The crater is deeper than Endurance crater and so exposes more of the bedrock, allowing us to see further back into Martian stratigraphic history

The bluff exposed on the right of the crater, for example, is 21m* tall. The formations at the top are similar to those in Endurance, where a thicness of 8m was exposed. So, here we have almost twice as much exposed rock from an earlier period than that represented by the Endurance rocks. From their chracter and composition we can assess their evironment of depostion. It should be interesting.

 

 

*Again, I am quoting from memory.

[Martin]

glad you are back! I think I may know what you could have meant about imperio-belly-ache.

I've experienced boards where the urge of mediocrity to assert status had seriously deadening effects---but here for the nonce we can dance and sing, yes Ophi?

[Spyman]

Absolutely correct. I was quoting the 20 degrees from memory. The problem is that the rover is getting older and more worn out all the time. Even a fifteen degree incline on difficult ground could be too much for it by the time it is ready to leave.

On the plus side, you may have noted my reference to the 'official' life span of the rovers. It seems to have been a tradition for interplanetary probes to be constructed much more robustly than the specifications call for. So, who knows how much longer they may keep going.

I agree it's most probable Opportunity will meet its final fate there in the Victoria crater...

 

It will take a long time to descend and explore all the interesting spots, it's a big chance Opportunity will malfunction severely before they even consider to turn around and climb up again.

 

But hopefully she will surprise us, manage to climb up to survive another martian year.

 

The 'official' life span of the rovers was 600 meters (1,969 feet) and 90 martian days, which Spirit was the first to accomplish in April 2004, today Opportunity has driven more than 9.4 kilometers (5.85 miles) and survived for 976 martian days and is still going strong !

 

Personally I think that going through the big effort of transporting a spaceprobe all the way to Mars for only 600 meters and/or 90 days is to low with the technology present today. Already at 1970 and 1972 Soviet Union sent rovers to the Moon, Lunokhod 1 & 2, which lasted longer.

 

"During its 322 Earth days of operations, Lunokhod traveled 10540 metres."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunokhod_1

 

"Lunokhod 2 operated for about 4 months, covered 37,000 metres (23 miles) of terrain."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunokhod_2

 

Also as a bystander I would like, (Yeah, dream on), was some simpler color camera, somewhere in the front, which would send/update pictures continuously on the web, without interfering with/from the scientific work. Maybe even with sound.

[[Tycho?]]

Wow, I had no idea the Russians landed rovers on mars, especially that long ago.

[Spyman]

;307629'']Wow, I had no idea the Russians landed rovers on mars, especially that long ago.

Already at 1970 and 1972 Soviet Union sent rovers to the Moon

You know, if you have an argument you could go on and explain it...

(instead of making sarcastic posts)

[insane_alien]

yeah they lasted longer on the moon because they had more solar power, no atmosphere and no dust-storms to crap up the machinery. they weren't being sandblasted every once in a while like the current martian rovers.

 

they also didn't have to contend with the day/night cycle

[CPL.Luke]

there's also the question of wheather or not its more useful to travel farther, or if its more useful to carry more equipment and go a shorter distance.

[[Tycho?]]

You know, if you have an argument you could go on and explain it...

(instead of making sarcastic posts)

 

I wasn't being sarcastic, I was genuinely suprised. I know a fair amount about space travel (so I thought) but I had no idea about this.

[Spyman]

Personally I think that going through the big effort of transporting a spaceprobe all the way to Mars for only 600 meters and/or 90 days is to low with the technology present today.

today Opportunity has driven more than 9.4 kilometers (5.85 miles) and survived for 976 martian days and is still going strong !

I hope you guys realizes that I only argue against the low "official" lifespan of the rovers and question why it was accepted. Both Spirit and Opportunity are doing GREAT !!!

(And have thus proved that we can do better.)

 

They have so far lived longer than the Lunokhod rovers and if it had been a race they might have reached farther than them. (And might still do that, Opportunity is closing in on Lunokhod 1.)

 

yeah they lasted longer on the moon because they had more solar power, no atmosphere and no dust-storms to crap up the machinery. they weren't being sandblasted every once in a while like the current martian rovers.

You are correct, the enviroment is different but our technology has improved since then, which the outstanding performance of the Mars rovers have proved.

 

I don't have the knowledge to say which enviroment is most hostile/friendly for the rovers but:

 

* If there is enough solar power, to let the rover charge batteries, move and performe scientific measurements, with a small plus then it is not affecting the rovers lifetime.

 

* The atmosphere is also contributing to the friendly part by lowering the differences between night and day temperatures. (Moon -233 C to +123 C versus Mars -140 C to +20 C)

 

* The dust-storms have actually increased the performance of the martian rovers by whiping the solarpanels clean from dust. (Why not a mechanical whiper ?)

 

* Machinery on the Moon also has trouble with dust:

"Thirty-plus years ago on the moon, Apollo astronauts made an important discovery: Moondust can be a major nuisance. The fine powdery grit was everywhere and had a curious way of getting into things. Moondust plugged bolt holes, fouled tools, coated astronauts' visors and abraded their gloves. Very often while working on the surface, they had to stop what they were doing to clean their cameras and equipment using large--and mostly ineffective--brushes."

http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2006/04apr_magneticmoondust.htm

 

they also didn't have to contend with the day/night cycle

"The rover would run during the lunar day, stopping occasionally to recharge its batteries via the solar panels. At night the rover would hibernate until the next sunrise, heated by the radioactive source"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lunokhod_1

 

Do you think the Moon always has the same side towards the Sun ?

 

there's also the question of wheather or not its more useful to travel farther, or if its more useful to carry more equipment and go a shorter distance.

I agree that the amount of equipment the rover has to carry will lower the speed and may affect it's mobility depending on terrain. But it is a rover - it can move, with longer lifetime the distance will increase, and the main point with a rover is to travel. Since the rovers are solarpowered they will not suddenly run out of power because their fuel is depleted.

 

;307822'']I wasn't being sarcastic, I was genuinely suprised. I know a fair amount about space travel (so I thought) but I had no idea about this.

OK - Sorry ! Since you wrote "on mars" instead of "on moon", I guess I misinterpreted your post.

[Spyman]

And now, when the dust storms have settled, Opportunity is descending down towards it's fate...

 

Opportunity Begins Sustained Exploration Inside Crater

NASA's Mars Exploration Rover Opportunity finished the last step of a test in-and-out maneuver checking wheel slippage at the rim of Victoria Crater today. Then the rover immediately drove back into the crater as the start of a multi-week investigation on the big bowl's inner slope.

 

"Opportunity is now exploring the interior of Victoria Crater."

 

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/newsroom/pressreleases/20070913a.html

[Spyman]

NASA Extends Mars Rover Mission a Fifth Time

The decision, announced today, could keep the robotic Martian explorers active through 2009.

 

"We are extremely happy to be able to further the exploration of Mars," said Alan Stern, associate administrator for NASA's Science Mission Directorate in Washington. "The rovers are amazing machines, and they continue to produce amazing scientific results operating far beyond their design life."

 

The twin rovers landed on Mars in January 2004 on a mission originally planned to last only 90 days. That was 45 months, or nearly four years, ago. Both robots recently survived a series of global dust storms that threatened to end the mission by blocking sunlight to their solar panels. In September, Opportunity began its descent into Victoria Crater in Mars Meridiani Planum region. Meanwhile, Spirit has climbed onto a volcanic plateau on the opposite side of Mars.

 

To date, Opportunity has driven 7.19 miles (11.6 kilometers) and has returned more than 94,000 images. Spirit has driven 4.51 miles (7.2 kilometers) and has returned more than 102,000 images.

http://www.space.com/missionlaunches/071015-marsrover-extendedmission.html

[Martin]

so glad they are extending the mission!

those little solar-power buggies are great machines.

Do you have pictures from down inside the crater? or is it still too early.

[Spyman]

Do you have pictures from down inside the crater?

This is the only press release image from inside:

NASA Mars Exploration Rover Opportunity used its front hazard-identification camera to capture this wide-angle view of its robotic arm extended to a rock in a bright-toned layer inside Victoria Crater.

http://photojournal.jpl.nasa.gov/catalog/PIA10077

 

You can see that the rover isn't very 'deep' yet and gauge the tilt of the slope down.

 

 

But you can view all raw images for Spirit here: -> http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/spirit.html

 

And here for Opportunity: -> http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/opportunity.html

 

 

Where you can find this series of snapshots, from the Rear camera, when it goes over the edge:

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/opportunity_r1291.html

 

And some nice pictures of the surrondings, from the Navigation camera, the same day:

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/opportunity_n1291.html

 

 

There is also a huge bunch of newer pictures, if one have the patience to search through them.

(Most of them are for navigation and scientific reasons and not for our pleasure.)

[Martin]

And here for Opportunity...

 

And some nice pictures of the surrondings, from the Navigation camera, the same day:

http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/all/opportunity_n1291.html

You picked out a nice sequence. I was reminded of the feeling of scubadiving over coral reef. Slowly drifting and gazing at a strange landscape that I wasnt ever meant to see.

 

The flagstone look of some of the terrain is curious.

As if the impact blast might have "shaved" the chunky aggregate flat, leaving rocks sliced flushe with the ground. Maybe I'm reading the picture incorrectly and not seeing the depth but it looks like flagstone paving.

 

there is a german sausage called Speckwurst (if I remember) which is reddishbrown with white lumps of baconfat in it. If you slice it, the sliced lumps look like speckles or polkadots.

[grifter]

Martin, did you not hear about the pre-mission prep team that went up ahead of the main mission to add some flagstones and a nice gazebo they're thinking about some crazy-paving for Jupiter, i think it would be a nice touch on a more serious note, those are some brilliant images, I wonder if the nice chaps at NASA would let me have a drive ??