The EU

[CPL.Luke]

hmm a clause such as "no lose ends" seems a bit unreasonable, when it comes to important parts of legislature, there has to be absolute clarity otherwise when a country leaves the EU parliament could force them to stay through all sorts of wierd back doors, and if the EU had its own military... it becomes some cause for concern.

 

I doubt the british pint will ever have to fear the metric system though. (just offer the cops a pint when they come knocking)

[Dak]

hmm... i can see the point of a unity wanting to self-perpetuate and make it difficult for any member to leave whenever the going gets ruff, and also the argument that member states shouldn't be able to just leave the others in the lurch...

 

but i agree: it should be more clearly spelt out what, exactly, these 'agreements of withdrawl' would entail, so they cant be misused to bully countries into staying.

 

am i right in thinking that us states can susceed?

[CPL.Luke]

no, a US state cannot secede from the Union, that being the cause of the American civil war. I think virtually every american is quite happy with that arangement. However we have the luxury of direct democratic control over our government (as compared to the description of EU democracy), and at this point in our history we all see ourselves as Americans (although it took several very large wars against foreign agressors to forge that identity and one civil war.

 

It seems to me that Europe neither has that identitiy or for the most part want that identity, Europe is a wonderfully diverse place and if the EU wants to become a unified stae that WILL change. There would be alot of cultural collisions that would leave any particular are incredily diverse, but I think the entire continent will be forced into a certain level homogeneity.

 

Kind of like how America is today, if you look at a place like New York City, there is a huge amount of cultural diversity. just the other day I ws there and in one city block (about 100-300 ft: 33-100m) I saw a

 

Korean restraunt

Afghani restraunt

Indian restraunt

Thai restraunt

Polish restraunt

Burger joint

Italian restraunt

Mexican Restraunt

and a couple bars of various styles

and at least one english pub

 

and in less than ten minutes of travel I can be imersed in just about any culture imaginable.

 

Now if you compare New York to LA there won't be that much difference in terms of identity ie. They both Feel like American cities.

 

If the EU makes a strong effort to break down the national borders I think that same phenomenon will happen in European cities, you'll get more diversity in any singular city, but city to city it will still feel like a similar city, a European city. Maybe that Identity already exists and its relly just semantics and politics that keep Europeans apart, I've never been to Europe so I couldn't tell you whether or not thats true, but it seems that it is something that you guys should consider, do you want to be Europeans or do you want to be Brits, French, Germans etc.

[Pangloss]

That's an interesting point. Of course, Andrew Young says it's actually okay that Wal-Mart is driving mom-and-pop stores out of business, because (paraphrasing) those are the stores that were always keeping the black man down & out. (Which promptly cost him his consulting position with Wal-Mart.)

 

But you're right, we pay a price for convenience in the form of cultural homogenization. It's an interesting question as to whether breaking down those national barriers would have an adverse impact on that. It depends on what's actually causing those market forces to act one way or the other.

 

Is an area "quaint" or is it "blighted"? Sometimes it's hard to tell the difference.

[Sisyphus]

CPL.Luke:

 

I think you're right about that, but not completely. Smaller American cities all do tend to become homogeneous, but I would strongly disagree that the same holds true for the larger cities. New York most definitely does NOT feel like LA, and I shudder at the thought that one day it could. There are probably a dozen U.S. cities that have been able to maintain a very distinct identity, to greater or lesser degrees. You're not going to tell me that New Orleans is like Boston is like Washington.

 

That said, the effect you describe is certainly present. Just not complete. And, to a certain extent, it's already present in Europe, as well, based on my very limited experience. Rome will never be Berlin, but they're both definitely European, and they're much more similar today than they were a hundred years ago.

[Dak]

yeah: all european cities are european, but they have distinct flavours -- paris and london are both, without doubt, european cities, but paris is definately french, and london english.

 

the homogony is less than is in america (although my experience of american cities is limited), but you can definately tell when you're in an american city, and when you're in a european one.

 

However we have the luxury of direct democratic control over our government (as compared to the description of EU democracy)

 

i still dont see how the eu is undemocratic tbh...

 

to do something, a plan has to be made, and the plan has to be authorised. no one section of the eu has both powers.

 

the commision plan; the parliment or, less often, the counsil, authorise plans; then, the plans are effected.

 

a non-elected body that plans, but needs permission to act from a democratic body is, imo, still subject to democracy. all it means is that the head of that democracy doesn't have power to both plan and authorise, and the people who make plans are chosen for their competence in making plans, rather than popularity.