Do lobsters feel pain?

[blackhole123]

I was thinking the other day, about how when lobsters are cooked, instead of being killed prior to cooking, they are boiled alive. This just seems to me to be a particularly painful way to die.

 

So do lobsters feel pain like we do? Is it as cruel as it looks?

[insane_alien]

probably yes. i think they might be like frogs though feel pain when chucked into boiling water but if brought to he boil slowly enough then they wouldn't notice.

[bascule]

Before you start with pain, you have to start with if lobsters feel anything at all... i.e. do they have conscious experience remotely similar to ours.

 

I'm going to go with no. The reason is they do not have a cerebral cortex.

[Sisyphus]

Agreed with bascule. "Pain" as a nervous response and "pain" as an experience of suffering humans would find familiar are not necessarily (or even possibly, I think) the same thing. I don't think it is really possible for a lobster to suffer.

[Severian]

Even if they did feel pain, dropping them into boiling water will kill them instantly. I don't see why it would be more painful than any other death.

[gcol]

Message from the lobster people of planet Zorg:

 

We have no cerebral cortex, yet have conquered the problems of interstellar travel. Based on the information in this thread, we are modifying our mass-destruction weapons to cause you maximum pain and suffering when we invade in the name of lobstermanity.

 

Signed, Golden Claws.

[Dak]

apparently, the professional way to cook a lobster is to kill it with hammer and nail, and then chuck it into boiling water, at which point the air escaping it's shell makes a screaming noise, thus convinsing observers that the lobster is being boiled alive, and causing them to imitate it and spread the myth that the 'proper' way to kill a lobster is to boil it alive.

[AzurePhoenix]

apparently, the professional way to cook a lobster is to kill it with hammer and nail, and then chuck it into boiling water, at which point the air escaping it's shell makes a screaming noise, thus convinsing observers that the lobster is being boiled alive, and causing them to imitate it and spread the myth that the 'proper' way to kill a lobster is to boil it alive.

I was of the understanding that people who generally want to dull the pain will freeze it for fiteen minutes or so beforehand then boil it alive under the belief that it deadens their nerves, but the tradeoff is tougher meat, otherwise it's either tossed in whole and alive, or that the head areas is split down the middle with the hammer or knife method, but that doesn't necessarily killl it, just severs a coupla important nerve centers.

[-Demosthenes-]

They are just big bugs really Not much of a brain. But you can put them in the fridge for a while, and they'll slow down. It doesn't necessary help them, but they move around less while you put them in.

[Dr. Dalek]

I was thinking the other day, about how when lobsters are cooked, instead of being killed prior to cooking, they are boiled alive. This just seems to me to be a particularly painful way to die.

 

So do lobsters feel pain like we do? Is it as cruel as it looks?

I read about a study done that sugested most invetabrates are incapable of feeling pain, their neurological system isn't sophisticated enough.

The thing was the study caused an uproar from PETA because they believe that lobsters can feel pain and don't deserve to be boiled. Don't ask me why.

 

They are just big bugs really Not much of a brain. But you can put them in the fridge for a while, and they'll slow down. It doesn't necessary help them, but they move around less while you put them in.

Actualy they don't have brains as we kn ow them at all just a nervous cluster called a ganglion.

[SkepticLance]

Lobsters do have nerve cells of a type very similar to the pain receptors in mammals. In addition, their reaction when dropped into boiling water quite well simulates a frantic attempt to escape severe pain.

 

They also have little resembling a brain. It is likely their 'consciousness' is next to zero.

 

However, it is still probably a good idea to kill them by freezing before boiling. No other method is guaranteed to be painless.

 

You can, as an alternative, drop them in fresh water. They still react as if in pain, but much less dramatically. If the fresh water is almost freezing, even this reaction is lost.

[bascule]

Here's a tangentially related article:

 

Fish lack the brains to feel pain, says the latest school of thought

 

I don't think lobsters (or fish, for that matter) have the type of brain structure (neocortical) required for a conscious experience of the type we have.

 

I think their behavior is more robotic.

[Severian]

Here's a tangentially related article:

 

Fish lack the brains to feel pain, says the latest school of thought

 

I don't think lobsters (or fish, for that matter) have the type of brain structure (neocortical) required for a conscious experience of the type we have.

 

I think their behavior is more robotic.

 

Cool. So according to IMM's own moral system, she should be able to eat fish now.

[bascule]

Cool. So according to IMM's own moral system, she should be able to eat fish now.

 

IMM and I are both Utilitarians... and I have no problem with eating fish. She just has a different set of priorities when it comes to making moral judgements.

 

I thought the response from a PETA spokeperson in the article was hilarious:

 

His report' date=' published in the American journal Reviews of Fisheries Science, has concluded that awareness of pain depends on functions of specific regions of the cerebral cortex which fish do not possess.

 

Professor Rose, 60, said that previous studies which had indicated that fish can feel pain had confused nociception - responding to a threatening stimulus - with feeling pain.

 

"Pain is predicated on awareness," he said. "The key issue is the distinction between nociception and pain. A person who is anaesthetised in an operating theatre will still respond physically to an external stimulus, but he or she will not feel pain.[/quote']

 

Despite the findings of Professor Rose's study, a spokesman for People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals, which has invested heavily in an anti-angling campaign, said: "We believe that fishing is barbaric. Of course animals can feel pain. They have sensitivity, if only to avoid predators."

 

(note the composition fallacy: some animals feel pain -> all animals feel pain. also, it's clear this spokesperson didn't actually read the study)

[Sisyphus]

Hehe. Unfortunately, PETA crossed the line into religious zealotry a long time ago. It doesn't matter what any new information says, they're too committed to change their minds. "Of course animals can feel pain." Oh, sorry! I didn't realize you were sure about it.

[Rhino]

Did anyone ask Dr. Zoidberg?

 

[ecoli]

He'd wind up eating himself, and we'd never know.