School uniforms

[the tree]

I don't like school uniforms, mostly because people seem incapable of wearing them properly. There is something about school ties which means they are never tied well and in the right place, and school shirts are generally crappy. On my way to help teach a lesson, the teacher I was helping had to have a go at five different students because the state of their dress was lousy so I said "and that's why I don't think there should be school uniforms" and she made the perfectly valid point that kids judge and exclude each other enough as it is and allowing them to show what clothes they like and can afford would just exacerbate that.

 

So anyways, what are your thoughts on uniforms? (mostly school ones, although in general would also be interesting)

[Klaynos]

They're good, for catching people who are truanting, etc etc...

 

As for quality etc... I went to 2 very differnt schools at differnt points, the first I wore cap, shirt, tie, jumper, blazer, black trousers. And the teachers never had any problems with people not wearing correct uniform or not having their shirts tucked in etc... I then went to another school where the uniform was blue jumber, white polo shirt (now dark blue), black trousers, and proper school shoes. The teachers had problems with people turning up in jeans random t-shirts and trainers on a regular basis... Of course there are likely other reasons for this but ignoring all other factors that don't match my point (as all good scientists don't do)

 

So pro uniform here.

[Mokele]

kids judge and exclude each other enough as it is and allowing them to show what clothes they like and can afford would just exacerbate that.

 

But will it? It'll give them a different basis for bullying etc, but will it actually influence the *intensity* of bullying? In other words, if you remove one thing for them to pick on people for, will they actually reduce how much they pick on others, or will they pick on others just as much, but for different reasons?

 

Personally, I think it's just a band-aid so that schools can claim to be adressing bullying without actually tackling the real issue (since the solutions would actually be, well, difficult). I doubt it'll make a scrap of difference in the intensity of bullying.

 

Mokele

[the tree]

But will it?

I don't know, I wonder if a formal study has ever been done on that.

[AzurePhoenix]

I know I always horribly mocked the football team whenever they had to wear something nice on game days, a button-up-shirt, tie, slacks, not because they were different but just because they looked like general dorks. And if everyone had to wear a uniform, i know I'd have been miserable and self-conscious. Just wearing the same robes as everyone else at graduation had me moody and self-loathing the entire time. (and hells knows, generally I made fun of people for who they were, not what they wore, that would be childish, unless of course you are making fun of what someone was wearing when that person was someone you'd already make fun of anyway regardless )

 

My question about the whole concept largely is, why do they have to pick out something so outlandish and noteworthy for a uniform? Why is it that to quash individuality, it must be done in the dorkiest way possible?

 

Why can't they have something less stupid-looking and just make the uniform thing something more like slightly nicer variants of the current styles (jeans, non-elderly-lady skirts, more normal and stylish shirts and tops), with fitting parameters of course, but with plenty of room of indivuality through color-choice and some variance in uniform choice?

[Dak]

theres something about the fact that 'the authority' (be it teachers or enployers) feel that they can dictate something as arbritrary as how i dress that's allways bugged me...

 

nothing too lude or rude, fine... but something as strickt as 'shirt and tie' makes me feel like they're trying to make me their bitch: the first thing i'd do on a school/work day is put on the clothes that they chose for me to wear...

 

i'd say im against uniforms, but i see klay's poin re: truanting.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Umm... if they can't dress properly in a uniform, what gives you the idea that they can dress properly in their own clothes?

[ecoli]

There's an idea that uniforms reduce gang activity, because there less of an oppurtunity to show your gang colors. Some schools feel that this is a solution, but I'm not sure.

[Klaynos]

There's an idea that uniforms reduce gang activity, because there less of an oppurtunity to show your gang colors. Some schools feel that this is a solution, but I'm not sure.

 

Just wear your collar up... half up, etc....

[Genecks]

I've always believed that uniforms are too strict of rule.

I've always been for an ideal type of clothing wear.

In other words, students have a choice of what they can wear.

 

However, if some students decide to start grouping together and wearing blue and the others wear red, well that's gotta go: Crips and Bloods.

 

My version of a set attire would be the following:

 

1. Blue jeans, black jeans, khakis, dress pants, or school uniform.

Exception: Those having pictures taken or giving presentations.

 

I'm taking out skirts because guys will look up the skirts of girls who walk up stairs.

 

2. Shirts of a plain color or color value: black, blue, red, etc.

NO logos, words, etc. ONLY color. No white shirts except in summer.

 

3. Plaid and blue jean overshirts are allows. However, there are no logos, words, etc. Only blue jean or plaid is shown.

 

No torn up, pieced together types of denims are allowed.

 

It doesn't seem as strict, and students have a variety of choices.

 

However, if some students start creating ingroups, then they will be forced to wear school uniforms.

 

Doing this pretty much keeps things plain. People can't say, "I have Old Navy" or some other junk. It destroys the idea of students being walking billboards. Goths will be forced to look like Johnny Cash. Jocks will probably wear blue jeans and a color shirt. Preppy girls will probably wear khakis and pink shirts.

 

There's an idea that uniforms reduce gang activity, because there less of an oppurtunity to show your gang colors. Some schools feel that this is a solution, but I'm not sure.

 

The gang recruitment typically happens outside of the school yet on the grounds. I'm pretty sure if peers start seeing someone wear gang colors, the peers might not be too found of that person.

 

It actually brings a person out into public if he or she is daring enough to do such a thing. For what I understand, some gang members might simply wear blue jeans, a black shirt, and a plaid overshirt. It looks pretty basic, so you don't really have anything to worry about. It doesn't really show colors anyone.

 

I've never been recruited by a gang members inside of school. No one has ever attempted to recruit me inside or near school. I've known people who have been inside of gangs, and that stuff typically happens outside of school. Drugs are sold in school, but gangs typically keep their recruitment outside of school. Gangs don't like the idea of competition in such a small place. It's typically independent students that sell stuff.

 

Is making everyone look the same a good thing?

 

I guess not. If people start seeing each other as similar, they will like each other more. At least that's what social psychology says. Therefore, students who look like each other can manipulate and control each other more often. Peer pressure will be greater and easier to use. I think a lot of educators don't know what they are doing. It's better to have people hate each other than be manipulated by each other.

[reor]

I liked my school uniform. Then again, i like my own clothes just as much. Then again, i'm a weirdo who doesn't care how people look and nobody cares about my opinion, anyway. Well, you get my point.

 

1. Why do children pick on each other? Why are there "gangs" ?

2. What kind of behaviour will school uniforms induce? In the long run? In school and in social life?

[ParanoiA]

I'm taking out skirts because guys will look up the skirts of girls who walk up stairs.

 

And the problem is...?

[Phi for All]

I've always believed that uniforms are too strict of rule.

I've always been for an ideal type of clothing wear.

In other words, students have a choice of what they can wear.

The problem with this is that you're not the reason schools have uniform policies. Your "ideal" is probably within reason, but uniforms control the extremes.

Is making everyone look the same a good thing?

 

I guess not. If people start seeing each other as similar, they will like each other more. At least that's what social psychology says.

What's wrong with people liking each other more? You seem to contradict yourself with that sentence.

Therefore, students who look like each other can manipulate and control each other more often. Peer pressure will be greater and easier to use. I think a lot of educators don't know what they are doing. It's better to have people hate each other than be manipulated by each other.

I don't get why people who like each other more are automatically going to manipulate each other. And I don't agree that hating each other is the best default. At least if manipulation is going on you have a choice. Hate turns confrontation into conflict.

 

I think removing clothing (!) as an issue for disparity could be a good thing. Most of today's conflicts occur because people remain aloof and don't talk to each other as equals. Until you start talking the other person is a senior or a black chick or a science geek or an Asian jock or whatever clique you've seen them with. Start talking, get to know them and they become Bob or Aliesha or David, a person like you.

 

School uniforms seems like oppression and the Western world is almost hard-wired to resist anything looks like it's going to impinge on our inalienable rights, but clothing has become such an issue these days because of marketing campaigns that target people as losers if they don't buy the right stuff. I think it's a real root cause for many problems we have, especially in the US. "You're less than acceptable if you don't buy me" has replaced, "Buy me because I'm a great product" for many advertisers and it's got to have a profound impact when this message is hammered home 48 times an hour when watching TV.

 

Why do people in high school object to uniforms but not to the more subtle oppression from marketers who are calling them losers? At least the schools are trying to help you even if it seems to help them as well.

[GutZ]

Well in my high school we had no dress code [until girls started wearing small tank tops, they banned them ] I didn't particularly care either way , I was like 14/15 - 18 years old, I guess everyone was trying to "find themselves" so uniforms seemed quite useless (plus we had the reputation of being the smart public school, so the kids who went were nerds, or people with low-self esteem that thought they were cool).

 

It wasn't that bad, the schools with uniforms were far worse off, but I doubt it was due to clothing.

 

We did have the cool clothes thing though. I guess in that respect I was more of a "loser" even though I spent 20-30 bucks on jeans which lasted longer and looked Idenitical to 100-200 dollar jeans...I don't know...I really hated HS, well I generally hate people, especially my age, I get along better with older people.

 

..and I'll stop there before I start the endless ranting.

[CPL.Luke]

there are always problems of being cool and not being cool, its part of growing up, realising that all that you need is to have some good budies, and a direction. you don't need to conform to someone elses idea of what "cool" is.

 

back in the sixties the billboard top 40 used to tell you what music to listen to if your cool, now we have people telling us what clothes to wear to be cool, its not that big of a deal.

 

I went to a very wealthy public highschool (wealthy enough that the school had flat screens in the hallway) I lived in a trailer park in that town.

 

I never had a problem wearing cheap clothes from the good will or old navy etc. I like the way I dress and nobody ever criticized me for it.

 

also learning how to dress yourself properly is an important skill for later on in life, whether you like it or not the way you dress attracts certain people, gives others some impression of you etc. (helps with the ladies ) its good that kids learn about this.

 

 

EDIT: my school also had the dress code that essentially made it so that people couldn't show up naked, i agree with this as it makes it difficult to concentrate if the person next to you is half naked.

[5614]

From years 7 to 11 I had a uniform, then when I moved to the Sixth Form in the school there is no uniform.

 

I don't care too much about my appearance, so the only difference to me is that I have to buy a few more jumpers, as I'm wearing them 7 days per week, and not just at weekends.

 

However I know half of the girls now wish we had school uniform, thinking "oh no, what will I wear?" and spending a lot of time chosing what to wear each day... you know how girls are.

 

I suppose I'm slightly on the "no school uniform" side, but don't feel especially strongly either way.

[husmusen]

Well, uniforms don't do anything to stop bullying, all the schools I went to in Australia had uniforms, there were good schools and bad schools, bullying ranged from taunts to stabbings.

 

I have nothing against uniforms, but could they just get a bit of taste.

I see the other countries schools and there is blue and red and white and all sorts of colours. Vs Aussie High schools different shades of grey. And the buildings were grey too, and it all blended in so much you could accidentally walk into people because it was like perfect camoflage (allright I'm exaggerating a little bit but not much).

 

What you must watch out for though is if a school gets it's logo on it, you then have a monopoly uniform supplier and uniforms can suddenly be a major school expense.

 

Husmusen

[BobbyJoeCool]

Our dress code was fairly simple.

 

1) No rips in your pants in the knees or anywhere else

 

2) No middrift showing (so, no lowcut pants with a really short shirt

 

3) No wallet chains

 

4)Skirts must come at least 3/4 of the way down to the knees (exception for cheerleaders in uniform for game day etc.)

 

5) Tank Tops must have a sholder width of 1/2 inch or more.

 

6) (added recently) No showing thongs or g-strings.

 

7) No drugs, alchohol, tobacco, sexual imagry, or swearing allowed displayed anywhere on your clothes.

 

Basically, the banned anything too promiscuous or tattered. They made you look half respectable while not allowing you to draw too much attention to yourself. You're given a LOT of freedom, but kept you within reason.

 

Hey, I'm complementing my school?!?!?!?! Well... they did gradumuate me... lol.

[Glider]

I liked my school uniform. Then again, i like my own clothes just as much. Then again, i'm a weirdo who doesn't care how people look and nobody cares about my opinion, anyway. Well, you get my point.

 

1. Why do children pick on each other? Why are there "gangs" ?

'In-group - out-group' identities. The minute a person identifies with a group, they begin to attribute more negative qualities to all people identified as 'out-group', and that often leads to problems (See Sherif, 1956 The Robbers Cave Experiment)

 

2. What kind of behaviour will school uniforms induce? In the long run? In school and in social life?

Nothing much as far as I know. It may reduce the in-group/out-group thing in the short term, but as for the long term, I don't think it will have any particular effect. It won't produce a bunch of social clones or anything. It may teach people that personal appearance is context dependent though, i.e. that dressing how you like is fine in your own time, but if you want to play someone else's game (i.e. get a job), you have to be able to play by their rules.

[Pleiades]

I went to a private school that taught the British GCSEs (though not in the UK). I’ve been wearing a uniform since the beginning of elementary school, didn’t stop until my last year of high school. I found it quite nice not to have to think of what to wear, and what colours match. The only thing I really objected to was the way some teachers insisted you wear the blazer at all times, even if you were too hot. I’m also not especially fond of ties, since I don’t like having my collar buttoned up that high. We didn’t really have a problem with cliques. There were two major crowds in my year, but neither one was really mean to the other. The older we got, the more the two crowds mixed.

[tartanpaint]

I have had to wear uniform in every school I've been to. In primary school (UK) it was a black jumper with school/town insignia, black trousers and an awful bright yellow polo shirt. In high school its the same but a white polo shirt instead. It's also far more relaxed, I see people wearing all sorts of t-shirts under school shirts. The teachers don't seem to mind unless you turn up in jeans. I have no problem with school uniform as it takes pressure off you of what to wear. I don't mean trends because I rarely bother keeping up with them. We do have one day a year when you don't wear uniform but you give a pound (£)to charity to do so and then EVERYBODY wears jeans