Should school science labs be bound by federal laws preventing "real" learning?

[kenel]

This was taken from a MSNBC Article.

 

 

GENOA, Ill, July 7 —

In a blinding flash, the routine high school chemistry experiment turned to chaos. An alcohol-fueled fireball shot into the classroom, searing the skin of three junior honor students in the front row. They took the brunt of the blast on their faces, necks, arms, hands and legs. The teacher pulled burning jeans off one of the girls; scorched skin fell from the boy’s face. The rest of the class scrambled for the door, leaving burned backpacks and books behind.

.......

 

Almost all of the accidents and injuries could have been prevented with simple safety measures, experts said. But many teachers are unaware of the dangers, and there is no formal system to share information on accidents so teachers can learn from others’ mistakes.

.......

 

“I think lawmakers need to take another look at things,” said Roy, of the National Science Teachers Association. “But there is a lot on the books now that needs to be enforced, and teachers need training. You send your kids to school because you think they’re safe. It burns me that (accidents) are happening when they’re preventable.”

 

 

My Thoughts:

 

I don't think that "lawmakers" need to take another look at things, but the incompitent students who make blatant mistakes should re-evaluate their situation. It is obvious that if proper safety procedures are followed, chaos is minimal, and high school students can return to performing actual experiments...ones which actually teach chemistry; not boiling water for four weeks, attempting to calculate it's evaporation time.

[fafalone]

I think basic safety like this should be common sense to both the student and the teacher. Honors students not seeing where something would be going? I think it's more their fault than the teachers. Laws governing high-school laboratories are overly strict already; fortunately I had a teacher who allowed us to bend the rules, so we could make methanol rockets in class. Of course our rules were whacked out... we had to wear goggles, but no gloves were available for working with burning things or handling acids/bases.

Accidents are going to happen whether there's a law or not. The only way to prevent accidents like this is to make a law against using a combustable liquid, which is overly opressive.

Of course, if the teacher is unaware of the dangers of using amateur combustion engines, well that's just sad.

[chris]

I have to agree with faf. If the students where in honors classes they should know the basics of chemistry. But then again, they could of been learning something. and the instrments might not of been clean. I heard of stories like this. They are few and far apart. Its like a plane crash. It happens. are they gonna ban people fling on planes? No, its impractical. Just follow the directions and pray its not you that gets hurt.

[TrIVIAL/\bLue]

I think that combustable liquids and materials should not be banned from school labs, but I do belive that people who have no common sense and who don't want to learn should not be in the labs. There needs to be stricter guidelines and the teacher need to know what to do. There seems to be alot of stupidity in my sicence classes, no one seems to have any interest. They all just dink around in class and not pay attention. I belive that before they are allowed to use the lab they must pass a safty test, and the people who dont want to be there should be weeded out. I am turning 15 this summer and I am a combination of worried and angry, about taking chemistry. I cant belive that people really dont care enough to practive great safty, and to pay attention. I am afraid and mad for them and at them.

[Radical Edward]

safety is one of the easiest things to do, since with the majority of experiments it is fairly clear what is going to happen. I am shocked that someone with no concept of safety could actually be qualified enough to teach a class. Any experiment that stands a chance of exploding shoule be carried out behind a screen, indeed our chemistry teacher wouldn't drop little lumps of lithium into water unless there was a screen in the way, and all that does is fizz a bit.

[blike]

I belive that before they are allowed to use the lab they must pass a safty test

 

We had a safety test at USF, although if you failed I'm sure they wouldn't have kicked you out of lab. But, you can never be too safe in a science lab. My chem labs at USF were rediculously safety oriented. Goggles on whenever in the lab, long sleeves, long pants even if only a paper lab.

[kenel]

You're comparing USF to a High School....I'd hope that there definatly was a maturity difference. I'm in agreeance though, you can never be too safe, even when making paper airplanes.

[aman]

A fellow student in my chem class in high school had been drilled in safety but the teacher never showed us one important lesson. The student opened a bottle of clear unlabled liquid and he sniffed it to see what it was. It was very concentrated HCL and he had to go to the hospital with severe burns to his lungs. He coughed for weeks after he got out. The class was full of close calls because chem was required but some of the students should have been on leashes. The teacher was a disaster. I survived. It would be worse with the Gov't in it.

Just aman

[Scorpio]

Simple knowledge would keep you from hurting yourself. The first thing you learn are what are the strong bases and acids. If you hurt yourself it is simply because you didnt listen or you did something wrong. The experiments you do in HS are really very simple and basic. Listen and do your homework and you wont get hurt in class. There was a girl in my Chem class who picked up some NaOH with her bare hands. She was rushed down to the nurses office and her hands were burned pretty bad. The teach must have said dont touch it to your skin about 15 times. If you hurt yourself after all that then too bad. You didnt listen and you are stupid.

[aman]

Pick a good lab partner. through college I saw a couple of accidents where the student made a mistake and he burned his partner with the result, ie: putting down a hot beaker and not warning the partner. It sucks grabbing a hot beaker with bare hands. Communication!!!

Just aman

[Adam]

Nah, you people are irresponsible

[YT2095]

Expecting the Unexpected by teaching yourself to always imagine the worst case. and when In doubt ASK (or don`t do it if it`s "Energetic Materials", last thing you need is sweaty hands or the shakes!).

[Guest TjsTjs]

You people fail to see the point.

 

It doesn't matter whose fault it was.

We can't keep students who may or may not cause an accident out of labs -- there's not test for that.

And we can't blame the teacher because who is going to pay for the thousands in lawsuits? The teacher with her $30,000 salary? No, the school will. And the school can't say "Well, it was the students' fault," in a court room -- that won't fly no matter what you tell me. And it can't say "it's not our fault -- the teacher wasn't trained!" because the school HIRED him/her.

 

The reason lawmakers need to examine the issue is because despite who is really accountable for the accident, it's not practical to try to blame them.

[YT2095]

Well if a football jock gets injured playing football at school, they don`t sue the school?

so folks undertaking the Sciences could simply sign a disclaimer waiving all responsibility of the school before they even enter a Lab. makes sense to me

[Guest gamemastermh]

The average chemistry student is careless it seems. I'm surprised by how many lab rules I see get broken in a second year, college course. However, there is no real danger with lots of labs.

With many people being hurt of injured, this leaves one obvious reaction: The bad scientists will get hurt of deterred from science processes. Survival of the fittest. So, my friends, give every lab student 18 molar Sulfuric acid and cocnentrated KOH. They can make their own solutions even, by dilution. Seeing a few of their classmates with holes in their hands would certaintly deter the average student.

[fafalone]

Does is seem that labs are obsessed with safe goggles but could care less about gloves when handling chemicals that will severely damage skin on contact? That's the way it is around here...

[Sayonara]

The basic idea is that sight is more important than skin, but I really can't see latex disposables being that expensive

[greg1917]

In my labs we sign a thing that says we are obligated to wear glasses all the time, and generally adhere to the safety guidelines in the course book. if we are injured by not following these guidelines (or while not wearing safety glasses) the university couldnt care less and has kicked people off the course before for getting themselves seriously injured through their own negligence. The way it should in my opinion; if your stupid enough to spill nasty corrosives on your hands without wearing gloves why should the university pay you compensation when it strictly warned you about the dangers?

[YT2095]

Well said!

 

and plastic and or Nitrile gloves are filthy cheap compared to after-care for NOT using them!

it should be like other things in life, drive a car... don`t drink and wear a seatbelt.

sex with a stranger... wear a condom.

work on a building site... wear a hard hat

chill in a beach... wear sunscreen.

etc...

 

it`s all down to personal responsibility, and I don`t see why OTHERS should "carry the can" for other peoples foolishness.

[Dudde]

I don't see where sex and 18 molar sulfuric acid have anything in common whatsoever

 

some chemistry students these days are stupid, I hate to diss my High School AP chem class but... O_O how did they get out of physical science?

 

I think teachers should just be better at their job of showing students what happens when you don't follow safety rules. If you're that high in chemistry and still fail to see the reason for safety, you deserve to do something bad

 

 

 

 

 

 

way to revive the thread?

[YT2095]

""I don't see where sex and 18 molar sulfuric acid have anything in common whatsoever""

 

ya kinda lost me here bud?

ya refering to "Her" in scorpios post?

or me with regards to Condoms etc...?

 

here in the UK we have something called "COSHH" it`s all to do with Gov Health and Safety regs. each class wether it be nuclear chemistry or plain old woodwork, has to learn this stuff, the problem is, there`s no formal exam for it, AND You`re allowed to have access to these things even if you didn`t even attend that day

personaly, I think it should be a prerequisite before entrance into a Lab, at least that way if nothing else the school keeps their own a$$ covered too!