Callipygous Posted March 17, 2005 Posted March 17, 2005 Please be patient with me.I really want to understand your point of view. But my mind is not your mind and I can only see things in my way. I know what transformations a woman’s body goes through throughout life and agree totally that the burdens of childbirths are great upon the lifestyle and physical structure. But also that women live longer and have other endurance features added to assist the process. Can I throw this in while it’s fresh in my mind. The other motivation in my pro-life stance is a deep respect for the process of life. A similar example would be like watching a friend paint a beautiful picture in oils of your favourite place. I would never be able to deface that painting. I would be held back by my wonder at the artistic ability and thoughts of all the diligent effort of the artist as well as the sadness that there was one less beautiful thing in the world. When I think of all the evolutionary trial and effort' date=' plants that die so you can eat, suns that burn to throw light on the plants, I couldn’t deface any creation of that process.[/quote'] what if your friend decided they didnt like the painting, threw it away and started from scratch? would you tell them no, make them finish it instead of starting the new one, and force them to hang it on one of their walls anyway?
Kraft Posted March 17, 2005 Posted March 17, 2005 I'm unsure how it 'says nothing', I gave a reasonable criteria for when personhood is reached. So, you believe the issue is that of the potential persons, not of when personhood begins? What is a human being/person to you? Your respect for life argument, how far does that go? (only human life gets special treatment?) Once you answer that, I'll expand on the issue. As for the core motivation: respect, honesty and consistency. If you mean 'motivation' for not covering the potential persons argument in more detail, I just don't think it's the main issue.
reverse Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 I'm unsure how it 'says nothing', I gave a reasonable criteria for when personhood is reached.. apologies did not mean to be dismissive, it was extremely well thought through. So' date=' you believe the issue is that of the potential persons, not of when personhood begins? What is a human being/person to you? .[/quote'] You yourself, that’s a good example. Your respect for life argument' date=' how far does that go? (only human life gets special treatment?). .[/quote'] No, all life. Once you answer that' date=' I'll expand on the issue. As for the core motivation: respect, honesty and consistency. If you mean 'motivation' for not covering the potential persons argument in more detail, I just don't think it's the main issue.[/quote'] So what do you hope personally hope to gain by being pro choice?
reverse Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 what if your friend decided they didnt like the painting, threw it away and started from scratch? would you tell them no, make them finish it instead of starting the new one, and force them to hang it on one of their walls anyway? It was just an example to try and convey my sentiment. What I’m really asking is what you hope to gain form being pro choice. I have told you what I hope to gain by being pro life. Ps I like unfinished paintings...that’s not a metaphor, it's really just a view about oil on canvas.
Callipygous Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 It was just an example to try and convey my sentiment. What I’m really asking is what you hope to gain form being pro choice. I have told you what I hope to gain by being pro life. Ps I like unfinished paintings...that’s not a metaphor' date=' it's really just a view about oil on canvas.[/quote'] mine was a metaphor. i dont believe you have to have some personal gain for believing something. i just think that is what is morally right. if you really want me to stretch it i can... after all, i have BSed my way all the way through highschool now: the personal gain i get from being pro choice is the good feeling i recieve from standing up for my beliefs and upholding womens rights. what do athiests hope to gain from believing there is no god?
Aardvark Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 what do athiests hope to gain from believing there is no god? Self respect.
Callipygous Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 i think you may have a bit of a cause and effect mix up there. (editted for PC)
reverse Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 the personal gain i get from being pro choice is the good feeling i recieve from standing up for my beliefs and upholding womens rights. any particular women? what do athiests hope to gain from believing there is no god? carte blanche of course. http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/carte+blanche
Callipygous Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 any particular women? no... nor do is that actually what im going for, in case you didnt catch that. watch this space. huh? for an edit?
reverse Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 no... nor do is that actually what im going for' date=' in case you didnt catch that.[/quote'] so you aren’t taking a position out of loyalty to someone else?
Callipygous Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 so you aren’t taking a position out of loyalty to someone else? no.my position is just what i believe is right. you seem intent on hearing what my personal gain is, i dont see any personal gain, so i threw out the same kind of trash i throw out when i have to bs an essay.
Callipygous Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 carte blanche of course. http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/carte+blanche you dont believe something to achieve personal freedom. maybe you believe you have absolute freedom and somehow belief in a god would contradict that, so you dont believe there is a god. you cant say " i want to be free, so im not going to believe in god" you either believe in god or you dont.
reverse Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 you cant say " i want to be free, so im not going to believe in god" you either believe in god or you dont. Agree. but that wasn’t the way you phrased the question originally.
Callipygous Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 Agree. but that wasn’t the way you phrased the question originally. the point is, you keep asking what i have to gain from being pro choice. NOTHING. i am pro choice because it is what i believe is right. you dont choose your beliefs based on what will serve you best. you dont choose your beliefs at all.
reverse Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 no.my position is just what i believe is right. you seem intent on hearing what my personal gain is, i dont see any personal gain, so i threw out the same kind of trash i throw out when i have to bs an essay. Have you noticed in court they always try and establish a motive. that's just what I'm looking for here. Not to use it to hamstring your argument but to bypass the BS.
reverse Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 the point is, you keep asking what i have to gain from being pro choice. NOTHING. i am pro choice because it is what i believe is right. you dont choose your beliefs based on what will serve you best. you dont choose your beliefs at all. did you have any idea where they came from then? did you think they were there in your head when you were born?
Callipygous Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 i think they are based on many things. my genes being one of them, plus my surroundings, my up bringing, anything i see on tv or hear on the radio, things friends say, teachers.... everything. also, my thoughts and logical reasoning based on all those things effect it.
reverse Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 (this post should be transposed with the one above it) Thought. Are they the beliefs of your social group and do you adhere to them in order to belong? Have you picked them up by osmosis as it were?
reverse Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 So is your main motive for posting so diligently on this topic simply to express your beliefs whatever they may be , the actual topic itself is irrelevant? I’m looking for the main driving force here.
Callipygous Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 So is your main motive for posting so diligently on this topic simply to express your beliefs whatever they may be ' date=' the actual topic itself is irrelevant? I’m looking for the main driving force here.[/quote'] main driving force behind what? why i believe that? why im discussing it?
reverse Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 hey, just realized something. you are pretty smart, go look at your answer in post 216. there is much more to that than meets the eye. thats 216. got the wrong post number before.
Callipygous Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 (this post should be transposed with the one above it) Thought. Are they the beliefs of your social group and do you adhere to them in order to belong? Have you picked them up by osmosis as it were? i dont do it to fit in, but there is a good chance that a lot of what i believe i picked up from my parents. like i said, you dont choose this stuff. im sure some people act like they think something to fit in, but that doesnt mean they actually believe it.
Callipygous Posted March 18, 2005 Posted March 18, 2005 hey' date=' just realized something. you are pretty smart, go look at your answer in post 214. there is much more to that than meets the eye.[/quote'] im not seeing it.
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