Copper Sugar???

[Radical Edward]

YT2095 said in post #24 :

Now THAT`S what I call Dedication

 

totaly ignoring the facts that copper and cig smoke is toxic to the point of deadly, in the persuit of Science!

 

Good Man

 

well if the government are willingto fund my research, who am I to say no. I can imagine submitting a proposal which includes a large cigarette budget

 

which reminds me. The best PhD funding idea I ever had was to get in touch with a major internet porn supplier and get them to fund a project on fibre optics, on the basis that porn movies and pictures require large amounts of bandwidth.

[YT2095]

good call, I`m on it now!

[Radical Edward]

well be careful there I don't want your epitaph to read anything like:

 

Poor YT twenty ninety five,

shall experiment no more,

for what he thought was CH2O,

was CUSO4

[YT2095]

done, and no, in fact it`s quite the opposite? it seems to take the sugariness away a little, I tasted before the copper sulphate and after. also since I was taking copper I thought I`de try just the paper from a cigarette and see if the smouldering gasses would have the same effect, it had Non.

the CO2 fumes from a butane lighter had no effect either, but the cig I`m smoking now, is working (that would say it`s Tobbaco rellated to me).

gunna go and rinse now!

[Radical Edward]

ok, that seems to be one idea out of the way. I just had the thought though that the water in the dilute sugar solution might dissolve the remaoning copper sulphate away though. I am not sure how you could check that though, other than comparing

 

copper -> cigarette

 

to

 

copper -> sugar solution -> cigarette

[YT2095]

copper -> cigarette works 100%

 

copper -> sugar solution seems to diminish the sweetness?

 

copper -> sugar solution -> cigarette works just like the top one.

 

cig paper smoke and butane fumes have no effect. that`s about where I`m at for now, I really need to make a vac pump, the 2 litre pop bottle idea just doesn`t appeal to me at the moment?

[Radical Edward]

good good. well we are clearing problems up. Just another 4999 chemicals to test

[YT2095]

lol, true, but please refrain from putting it in those terms )

I`m sure when it`s found, it will be a rellatively simple soln, and IF it is more complex, then what the hell, there`s nothing else better to do with a few spare coffee breaks, besides, It beats doing crossword puzzels

[Pleiades]

Why not put a few drops of the solution on the filter paper (assuming you use filters) and let it dry, this might tell you if the copper salts are simply acting as catalysts and not doing funny business with you taste buds.

[YT2095]

well I`ll go a step further and report that I`m trying to identify a plant (most probably a weed) that will give the same effect!

about 2 weeks ago, I was pulling up a large section of weeds, and decided it was time for a cig break (I roll my own cigs), and that also tasted sweet? I`de messed with no copper, only plants and had stains on my hands from them obviously.

 

this seems to get Stranger!

[Pleiades]

Now that IS weird. Tell me it was the weed sap that made the tobacco smoke sweet, I hope you weren’t smoking random weeds from you garden…….unless of course, this is a very specific ‘weed’

[Dragoncaviar]

YT, with regards to post 13, about your vaccume packing up and making a new one with 2 litre bottles, well, I may have understood you wrong, but could you just not do it on a much bigger scale with bigger containers than 2 litre bottles, and siphon (not sure about spelling) the water out?

Might be completely wrong, but its just an idea

[YT2095]

YT' date=' with regards to post 13, about your vaccume packing up and making a new one with 2 litre bottles, well, I may have understood you wrong, but could you just not do it on a much bigger scale with bigger containers than 2 litre bottles, and siphon (not sure about spelling) the water out?

Might be completely wrong, but its just an idea[/quote']

sure you could, but I just went for the easiest method as I have a limited quantity of flexible piping, and figured a gravity feed would be the easiest

[YT2095]

*BUMP*

 

Update and Possible Hypothesis, Could the copper be having an effect on the Sodium/Potassium pumps in the cells, maybe even calcium?

 

the reason I ask is that I`ve found that Barium salts have a similar effect, and they are Toxic because of this effect of interfering with these cellular ion pumps, the effects of barium salts last alot longer too.

 

Could this be what`s going on here?

[jsatan]

*BUMP*

 

Update and Possible Hypothesis' date=' Could the copper be having an effect on the Sodium/Potassium pumps in the cells, maybe even calcium?

 

the reason I ask is that I`ve found that Barium salts have a similar effect, and they are Toxic because of this effect of interfering with these cellular ion pumps, the effects of barium salts last alot longer too.

 

Could this be what`s going on here?[/quote']

 

You didnt put Barium salts in your mouth, you crasy!!

lol

Does it taste nice?

[YT2095]

Hmmm... How to explain without either giving the wrong idea or prompting someone else to do the same????

 

direct answer is Yes I did, And it was done correctly with antidote seconds after. the reason is that with Some toxic chems, I like to familiarise myself with them, smell/taste etc... That way I learn and can recognise danger long before an accident can occur, same as standing in a chamber of Tear Gas, you LEARN IT!

and I DO know what I`m doing and am EXTREMELY WELL TRAINED! so don`t anyone else get any ideas about trying this or similar.

 

so No, I`m not crazy, quite the opposite

[woelen]

I have another nice variation. Why not try whether the smoke of a joint has a similar effect after exposure to a little copper:D ? You can also try a reefer, leaving out the tabacco.

The smell is a little sweeter and spicier already, so it may give a really strong sweet effect.

 

BTW, putting barium salts in your mouth is unwise to my opinion, even with antidote nearby. You also tasted mercury and lead salts? Copper ions are at the border for me, but I personally never tried tasting copper sulfate.

 

I also like to get aquainted with chemicals, so I carefully smell them if they are volatile, but why would I taste them? The only means of getting poisoned is through inhalation or possibly through skin, but in both cases the taste is not needed. I neaver eat when I do experiments and I simply cannot imagine that I ever will get chemicals in my mouth by accident. Inhaling some by accident of getting some on you skin of course is another story...

[YT2095]

yes I have indeed tried lead and mercury and cadmium aven arsenic and KCN amongst many many others, there is obviously some I will not Try (for obvious reasons) but the common ones yes, and some of the Gasses I had no real choice in the matter.

and no, they are not "Eaten", it`s literaly micro grams

[EvoN1020v]

Come on guys you got to be more open minded, there are tons of hypthosis that you can think of. So my theory of this, is that the copper elements form with a chemical in the cigarette to form a precipitate. The precipitate would land on your tongue and give you the sweet taste (aromatic rings). Oh bingo! I just looked at the "Solubility of Ionic Compounds" Table. I looked below at the low solubility which is <0.1 mol/L at SATP. Copper form with Chlorine would form a precipitate, along with bromine and iodine elements. [ce](CuCl2)[/ce].

 

Hope this helps you abit.

[YT2095]

Interesting!

 

I think what needs to be found out is the exact mechanism behind the tongue receptors that identify a Sweet taste, I remember Glider telling how Chili (capsciacin) creates that Hot Burning sensation and that it has to do with Calcium ions, I wonder what`s used for Sweet tastes?

and then maybe we could identify exactly what Copper and Barium have in common that interferes with the receptors (if indeed they have anything in common).

maybe a little research into how Artificial sweeteners work and "Trick" these receptors?

[EvoN1020v]

Know what? Our tongues can be pretty tricky because the receptors are chiral. You know anything about it? Our tongue have dextrorotatory and levorotatory so sometime there are same molecules, but we taste them differently. I don't know why I'm telling you this, but you wanted the "exact mechanism behind the tongue receptors".

[YT2095]

yes I`m familiar with Chirality and Enantiomers

 

I`m questioning at a lower level than that, to Ion Exchanges.

[EvoN1020v]

Then I recommend you to find the Common Ions as your first anaylzation for Ion Exchanges.

 

[Ferdinand]

Perhaps copper II acetate is sweet as well?

 

I once bit my fingernail(as I am prone to do) and my tongue turned numb. I actually became quite concerned because I fear dentists and dentists' needles. Feeling to my tongue did return, and I did confirm with controlled testing that I had residual Copper II sulphate under my nails from recent handling and it was responsible for the numbness(and no doubt some poisoning!)

[TWJian]

yes I have indeed tried lead and mercury and cadmium aven arsenic and KCN amongst many many others' date=' there is obviously some I will not Try (for obvious reasons) but the common ones yes, and some of the Gasses I had no real choice in the matter.

and no, they are not "Eaten", it`s literaly micro grams [/quote']

 

I presume you have some prussian blue or other chelating agents nearby, right? Actually, I admire your bravery in taking risks for the pursuit of science, although there's a rather fine line between bravery and foolhardyness. Frankly, your threads are very interesting owing to the amount of risks you take. (Kinda starting to be a little offtopic)

 

Both cupric and cuprous(I & II) acetate are used as fungicides... though cuprous acetate is normally there as an impurity. I think the sweetness is caused by aromatic compunds formed from the tobacco smoke, catalysed by copper.