Turkey and the EU

[Sisyphus]

I'm an American, but I'm curious about European perspectives on this. Should Turkey be admitted to the European Union?

 

Personally, I think it's probably a bad idea. Half of turkey wants to be a modern, secular state, but the other half are basically Islamicists. Not a good ratio, and quite unstable. In America, "Evangelicals" (our closest equivalent to Islamicists) account for only about 20% of Americans, and they cause all kinds of trouble, as they are uncompromising and highly motivated. I don't think I need to make the argument that similar adjectives apply to a large percentage of Islamicists...

 

Second, as I understand it, the major current standoff is about Cyprus. Both sides want the other to concede their demands before talks continue. Who is actually in the wrong is not even the point. How can Turkey simultaneously make overtures to try to join an organization of unprecedented international cooperation while simultaneously trying to hold one of its members hostage as a bargaining chip?

 

There are other issues as well, like the Turkish government's treatment of the Kurdish population, or just the huge number of UN censures against them. Basically, it just doesn't seem like they've demonstrated any commitment to cooperation or to the secular liberal ideas of other European states. I foresee nothing but trouble.

[ecoli]

Maybe once Turkey reaps the benefits of being in the EU, the radical half will get better. Either that or they'll get worse.

[JHAQ]

Europe in general has sown the seeds of its own destruction by allowing so much non - assimiltable absolutist Islamic immigration already . Demographically , they will have outbred native europeans & according to Islamic fundamentalism consider their hosts as non - Muslim & vassals of true believers . exploitable . expendable etc according to the dictates of the Koran .

[Sisyphus]

Non-assimilable is a strong word. Perhaps they themselves won't assimilate, but what about their grandchildren? Also, static extrapolation from current demographic trends is probably misleading. It will always tell you that whatever the current immigration wave is will become the majority in a couple generations or so.

[Dak]

I agree that turkey shouldn't join the eu atm, pretty much for the reasons you gave.

 

However, as i understand it, turkey have made many changes for the better in an attempt to join the eu,

 

The political reform program of the Erdoğan government continued. This included the abolition of the capital punishment, crackdown on torture, and more rights for its Kurdish population. In response to these developments, the European Commission recommended that the negotiations should begin in 2005, but also added various precautionary measures.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Accession_of_Turkey_to_the_European_Union

 

so i think the actual act of them joining should continue (but not succede untill they've actually sorted out their human rights issues, and acknowledged cyprus i suppose -- dont know too much about that)

 

as far as secularism goes, its secular compared to it's neighbouring states, which admittedly isn't that hard

[Airmid]

My constitution guarantees citizens freedom of religion, and states that discrimination on grounds of religion is a crime. If yours says differently, I pity you.

 

That out of the way, lets discuss Turkey and the EU. Personally, I see no fundamental reason why Turkey shouldn't join the EU, as long as they meet the conditions that the EU has set for membership. In my opinion, Turkey should not be made a special case. The conditions for joining should neither be more stern, nor more lenient than those for other European states.

 

For me, it's an important sign that Turkey should want to join the European Union. They're in quite a precarious position: they are more or less a buffer state between the capitalist west and the islamic east. They already have chosen sides though, being a NATO member since 1952. That they should want to tie in their economy as well with other European countries conforms this choice.

 

Airmid.

[CPL.Luke]

yes but how does te EU know that the islamic half won't overthrow the secular governemtn and establish a theocracy?

 

its what happened to the shaw in the 70's and its gotten to be fairly popular.

[Pangloss]

My constitution guarantees citizens freedom of religion, and states that discrimination on grounds of religion is a crime. If yours says differently, I pity you.

 

It's fascinating how many of those freedom-of-religion constitutions have cropped up in the last 200 years or so.

[Airmid]

yes but how does te EU know that the islamic half won't overthrow the secular governemtn and establish a theocracy?

 

The moment Turkey turns into a theocracy, it no longer meets the criteria for EU membership, and should be thrown out. I also think that, if that happens, Turkey will want out, especially if they implement the Shariah. Islamic economy (I mean, economy that follows the rules of the Shariah) is basically incompatible with western free market economy. So it wouldn't make sense for Turkey to stay in the EU in case that happens.

 

Airmid.

[Airmid]

It's fascinating how many of those freedom-of-religion constitutions have cropped up in the last 200 years or so.

 

Actually this part of our constitution dates back to 1579 (Treaty of Utrecht).

 

Airmid.

[Pangloss]

That's interesting, I didn't know that. But what I was hinting at is that Turkey's (quite a bit younger) constitution also protects freedom of religion.

 

I may just be demonstrating more ignorance here, but I'm not sure I understand the fuss with Turkey. I understand the basic religious problem, but I wonder how much of this is overstatement or exaggeration. The fuel on the fire of Muslim fundamentalism isn't religious viewpoint, but rather being poor in a modern, technological, interconnected world. Perhaps the reason Turkey doesn't have as much of a problem with fundamentalism is that it's simply a richer country.