Electrical junction box

[Callipygous]

some light fixtures in my mothers house have stopped working properly, i took a look at one of them today. the junction box is covered in something black. it almost looks like rust, but its the wrong color. the wires inside look damaged, two of them are exposed at certain points. i cant find information on problems that sound like this on google.

 

my first thought was that wires over heated or some other fire/spark related problem. but the wires themselves dont look like theyve been burned.

 

im starting to think this might be more of a job for an electrician. any thoughts to help me out here?

[jackson33]

my first thought is your right. rewire the house...

 

are you sure the box has just not been painted? sounds like painted over rust.

 

i am going to guess this house has the Fuse system, opposed to circuit breakers? if this is true, you may get away with an electrician or even install a breaker box yourself. its not that hard. loose wires are found in most all older boxes, unless your seeing the main wires which i would think not.

 

the fixtures and i assume light fixtures are probably from breaks in the power source. there is a little spring action copper piece centered in the bottom (of were bulb goes) that breaks off or loses its spring back ability. look (don't touch) into one working you will see it then check out your mothers. before they break of go out completely, flickering is observed which may give an appearance of other problems -static on the radio or TV, or other things on that same line seemingly not working properly.

[Callipygous]

its a wire junction in my attic. why would someone paint over it?

[Spyman]

You have not described the problems detailed enough to give any advise to how to solve it.

 

Some general advice:

 

Mains voltages are capable of delivering fatal, (lethal), shocks !

 

Erroneous or bad connections can be lethal to others and/or cause the house to burn down.

 

If you or any of your friends don't have the knowledge and experience required -> call an electrician.

 

If the junction box is part of the light fixtures and connected by mains power plugs -> replace them.

[insane_alien]

Mains voltages are capable of delivering fatal, (lethal), shocks !

 

statistics say i should be dead then. and the voltages are higher where i am.

 

get an electrician in, its his ass on the line then and not yours if its going to shock somebody.

[Spyman]

statistics say i should be dead then. and the voltages are higher where i am.

Statistics ? Are you doing a survey of how many shocks your body can take ?

[insane_alien]

no, but you would think that after ~100 shocks from the mains i would either learn not to touch unless i'm sure its not live or be dead.

[Spyman]

no, but you would think that after ~100 shocks from the mains i would either learn not to touch unless i'm sure its not live or be dead.

LOL ! ~100 shocks and still haven't learned not to touch.

 

Seriously if the current has its main pathway through the heart and both enter and exit points have low resistivity then bye bye...

 

The floor, socks and shoes are often quite good insulators, which have probably saved your life.

 

A low-voltage (110 to 220 V), 50 or 60-Hz AC current travelling through the chest for a fraction of a second may induce ventricular fibrillation at currents as low as 60mA. Fibrillations are usually lethal because all the heart muscle cells move independently. Above 200mA, muscle contractions are so strong that the heart muscles cannot move at all.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electric_shock

 

Ventricular fibrillation (V-fib or VF) is a cardiac condition that consists of a lack of coordination of the contraction of the muscle tissue of the large chambers of the heart that eventually leads to the heart stopping altogether.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ventricular_fibrillation

[Callipygous]

dont worry, im not completely new to electrical work. i know to shut off wires before i touch them.

 

my experience is enough to tell me something is definately wrong with that junction box, but not enough to tell what the cause of the problem is. : P

[ParanoiA]

dont worry, im not completely new to electrical work. i know to shut off wires before i touch them.

 

my experience is enough to tell me something is definately wrong with that junction box, but not enough to tell what the cause of the problem is. : P

 

I'm very curious about this black paint/material you say is all over the box. You also say there are a couple of wires exposed. All of this is a great recipe for a fire. I agree with Spyman in that there really isn't enough info to really help accurately. However, based on what you've posted so far, I would definitely replace the box. They're not that expensive and easy to wire up - other than terminating the mains. I would have an electrician come out and check out your situation, with the intention of wiring up the new mains connections for you. Then you can redress all of the connections fresh and tight and you'll have breakers and piece of mind.

 

Electricians are a little expensive, but they're worth it. I just replaced a breaker panel a few weeks ago, and the electrician had no problem making the mains connection for me.

[Dan]

I'm an Electrician myself and it really sounds like you should change your junction box. It may be a loose connection, i have seen junction boxes melt from the heat caused by a loose connection so the black could be burns from the heat, especially if the wires are damaged. Cut away the damaged wires and strip back some fresh wire to use before you change the box.

[jackson33]

I'm an Electrician myself and it really sounds like you should change your junction box. It may be a loose connection, i have seen junction boxes melt from the heat caused by a loose connection so the black could be burns from the heat, especially if the wires are damaged. Cut away the damaged wires and strip back some fresh wire to use before you change the box.

 

he did say there was no apparent wire damage. some old 4x4 junction boxes were black. my first impression was he was describing a fuse or breaker box which usually are not in attic's. i will stick to my first thought however and the problem is probably in worn or old fixtures. am sure you have run across this in older homes or even in new homes with an old lamp...

[Dan]

the wires inside look damaged, two of them are exposed at certain points.

 

maybe the exposed wires touched something metal or the two exposed ones touched, it would blow the fuse or the breaker but it would spark first which could be what the black is.

[Callipygous]

both the inside and outside are coated in a material that looks like rust, except that its too dark. it really doesnt seem like its painted or otherwise intentional.

 

on second inspection, i took a closer look at the twist on cap things they use to join wires and one of them looks like it got heated up quite a bit. its out of shape and has what looks like a burn mark on one side. the two wire with exposes spots are set up in a way that they could easily have touched. im thinking sparks were flying, but to make the entire box look charred like that... it really had to be more than a few sparks.

 

me and my mother have already decided to call an electrician. i think i would be up for replacing it, but not for deciding what the root of the problem is and preventing future problems.

 

if you guys are curious i could take a picture with her digital camera.

[jackson33]

maybe the exposed wires touched something metal or the two exposed ones touched, it would blow the fuse or the breaker but it would spark first which could be what the black is.

 

callip and dan; since the best solution has been made, a picture would now save you no money.

 

if the wires show signs of a burn, this complicates any prognoses. but likewise means the problem could be real simple. shut off the main power, tighten the wires in use and cap, then tape over or separated the un used permanently.

 

any black created from electricity should wipe off with the finger. if its original paint it will not.