Should I Attack my Wife?

[ku]

I am not a Christian. I am non-religious. But my wife is a Christian. I write this thread so I can ask other Christians here for advice on a family issue.

 

My daughter Lily lately has experimented with jewellery, just a plain gold necklace. She's only a little girl so I don't think jewellery is a good idea as she might lose it. But she loves wearing it. It makes her very happy, so I let her wear it because it's only $50.

 

My wife found out that Lily was wearing jeweller and she got very angry. She told me that the bible forbids women from wearing jewellery. I said, "Prove it," and she took out the Holy Bible and pointed to Peter 3:3, which says "Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes." So I had to take the necklace away from little Lily. She was really upset. It broke my heart to see my little girl so sad. My wife reminded Lily that it was her duty according to the Ten Commandments to listen to what her parents told her.

 

I have been reading the bible lately and I found something from 1 Timothy 2:11-12 that may help me: "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent." In other words, the woman should be in silence. I am the man of the house and I should therefore make the decisions, and if I decide to allow Lily to wear jewellery then I assume the bible supports that. My wife would have to agree otherwise she is going against the Word of God.

 

I continued to read the bible and read that "neither was man created for woman, but woman for man." (1 Corinthians 11:9.) In other words, God created her for me, not the other way around! Also, God created man first, not woman.

 

So I am thinking of confronting my wife with this evidence, but I am a little worried. What do you think I should do? Is this a good idea?

[YT2095]

does your Wife have any jewelery? even a wedding ring...

 

work on that angle too

[ydoaPs]

I am not a Christian. I am non-religious. But my wife is a Christian. I write this thread so I can ask other Christians here for advice on a family issue.

 

My daughter Lily lately has experimented with jewellery, just a plain gold necklace. She's only a little girl so I don't think jewellery is a good idea as she might lose it. But she loves wearing it. It makes her very happy, so I let her wear it because it's only $50.

 

My wife found out that Lily was wearing jeweller and she got very angry. She told me that the bible forbids women from wearing jewellery. I said, "Prove it," and she took out the Holy Bible and pointed to Peter 3:3, which says "Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes." So I had to take the necklace away from little Lily. She was really upset. It broke my heart to see my little girl so sad. My wife reminded Lily that it was her duty according to the Ten Commandments to listen to what her parents told her.

 

I have been reading the bible lately and I found something from 1 Timothy 2:11-12 that may help me: "A woman should learn in quietness and full submission. I do not permit a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she must be silent." In other words, the woman should be in silence. I am the man of the house and I should therefore make the decisions, and if I decide to allow Lily to wear jewellery then I assume the bible supports that. My wife would have to agree otherwise she is going against the Word of God.

 

I continued to read the bible and read that "neither was man created for woman, but woman for man." (1 Corinthians 11:9.) In other words, God created her for me, not the other way around! Also, God created man first, not woman.

 

So I am thinking of confronting my wife with this evidence, but I am a little worried. What do you think I should do? Is this a good idea?

 

"Wives, submit yourselves unto your own husbands, as unto the Lord.

For the husband is the head of the wife, even as Christ is the head of the church: and he is the saviour of the body."--Ephesians 5:22-23

 

But the Bible also says you can have slaves and you are to kill homosexuals. It says if your kids talk back to you, you are to kill them. If your wife wasn't a virgin on her wedding night, you are to kill her on her father's doorstep.

 

Obviously, one shouldn't always go by the Bible's "morality". In this case, though, I see no problem in disagreeing with your wife on the issue. BUT I wouldn't approach it in that way. Using her religion to attack her will not solve the problem. It will only hurt your relationship.

 

Edit: [joke]If you are planning on actually attacking your wife, I sugges using a baseball bat or a sharpened ferret.[/joke]

[Sisyphus]

So... wait. Your wife doesn't have anything in the way of "outward adornments," like haircuts, clothes besides coveralls, shaved legs, etc.?

[EvoN1020v]

I don't see why your daugther can't wear jewelry, because she won't get hurt from wearing it.

 

I'm a Christian myself, and I still wear necklaces. In fact, I am wearing this necklace for two straight years without removing it because it is very valuable to me. My mom gave it to me for my sixteenth birthday.

 

Maybe your wife is just a firm believer comparing to me.

[the tree]

In fact, I am wearing this necklace for two straight years without removing it

Seriously? You've not like, done anything that requires removing jewellery for two years? What about sleep?

 

Ku, I'm not 100% familiar with the Bible but the Timothy quote is part of a letter from one jew to another and no-one is claiming that it is the word of God.

 

Please don't attack your wife, the Bible wouldn't approve:

1 Peter 3.8 Finally, all of you, have unity of spirit, sympathy, love of the brethren, a tender heart and a humble mind. :9 Do not return evil for evil or reviling for reviling; but on the contrary bless, for to this you have been called, that you may obtain a blessing.

[EvoN1020v]

Seriously? You've not like, done anything that requires removing jewellery for two years? What about sleep?

 

That's right. It's just a special silver chain necklace.

[Pangloss]

One thing I don't see in the OP is any indication of whether you knew about your wife's position on jewelry before you permitted your daughter to wear some. And if not, why not. Most parents consider jewelry and makeup to fall under the range of permissive behavior that has to be governed following a parental decision. Why didn't that take place?

 

I'm not saying you did anything wrong there -- it's certainly possible that the subject didn't come up (a simple, understandable oversight amidst the vast number of parenting decisions that have to be made), but the reaction to arriving at that kind of realization should never be "well she's wrong and I'm right" -- it should be "ok we goofed not thinking about this one in advance -- let's sit down and iron it out".

 

So here's a crazy idea: Maybe you should talk to your wife and find out if her objections are really religious in nature. She's obviously not above religious compromise (having married you, you heathen!), so perhaps there's more here than meets the eye. It may be a simple as a negative childhood experience or a preconception about parenting.

 

Whatever the case may be, you two obviously have to decide, together, what's right for the child and then enforce that decision together. The fact that the child is heartbroken and crying is the result of bad/inconsistent parenting, not jewelry (or lack thereof). Kids are far more resourceful and able to get over things than adults.

 

And finally, what does any of this have to do with politics?

[Airmid]

You say that you're not a Christian, but your wife is, and derives her moral decisions from the Bible. You also said that you were having a discussion over morals with her, and asked us if we think it's ok to use quotes from the Bible as arguments. My answer: no, it isn't ok.

 

I think that you shouldn't use arguments in a discussion that you don't support yourself. If you truly think women are not equal to men, and that wives should be submissive at all times (and I sincerely hope that's not the case), then it's a different matter. In that case you can discuss with her what you think, and why, based on your own moral framework.

 

There's a weird tendency in us humans to want to mess with other people's beliefs and morals. As soon as someone claims to belong to a certain religious or otherwise morally involved group, we insist that they confirm to what we think the "rules" of that group are. How many times didn't someone bluntly point out to communists they can't buy an expensive car, or to muslims they can't drink alcohol, or to vegetarians they can't wear leather shoes? And we do this while we think it's perfectly alright for a person to buy expensive cars, or drink alcohol, or wear leather shoes. Frankly, I think that it's none of my business how other people deal with the details and dilemmas of their beliefs, as long as they stay within the law and don't force me to give up my own beliefs.

 

So, in my opinion, in any discussion about moral issues, we should focus on our own beliefs and arguments, and not on what we think the other person should believe.

 

ku, I wish you good luck, and I hope you and your wife will find the patience to solve this issue.

 

Airmid.

[JohnB]

Ku, don't play the game of Biblical quotes as you will get into hot water as Yourdad pointed out.

 

Peter 3:3 Says "Your beauty should not come from outward adornment, such as braided hair and the wearing of gold jewelry and fine clothes."

 

This doesn't say that you shouldn't wear jewellery or braid your hair, it says that the true beauty of a person comes from within. A Sociopath with Plastic Surgery wearing a King's ransom in diamonds is still a sociopath whereas a person of good nature wearing rags is still a good person.

 

Consider these two statements;

 

1. "Doesn't she look beautiful in it?" and

2. "Doesn't it look beautiful on her?"

 

Many people today use these statements as interchangable, but their meanings are exactly opposite to each other. Peter 3:3 refers to the first one, not the second.

 

Your daughter is not made beautiful by the necklace she is wearing, the necklace is made beautiful by her wearing it.

[ParanoiA]

Ku, don't play the game of Biblical quotes as you will get into hot water as Yourdad pointed out

 

Exactly. But the same goes for her as well. Tell her to leave her quotes to the bible. If you take these things literally, or attempt to infer some set of rules you will discover the bible contradicts itself. But like JohnB pointed out, many of these supposed "rules" are philosophical insights and truisms that have been misinterpreted, misdirected.

 

The ten commandments - now there's a set of rules. If god didn't want you to wear jewelry, or eat pork or dance it would be very clear that it's a sin. The ten commandments are not ambiguous. You don't have to "read between the lines". They are straight forward, and quite intentional - probably for good reason.

 

I could interpret a handful of different laws out of that one passage in Peter 3:3.

[ayam]

its not reasonable to argue/discuss with your wife using biblical quotes, i believe first off you have to understand the verse from its rooted context. you know this is some shocking stuff about christianity i had no idea it had some harsh commandments such as kill your wife infront of her fathers doorstep if she wasnt virgin , thats crazy man.

[padren]

I think you'd go in circles if you used the bible to counter her intended parenting guidelines and skirt around the real issue:

 

If I read it right, that is:

 

She wants to raise the daughter you have together according to her interpretation of the bible, and you raise her according to what makes reasonable sense to you. I imagine there have been issues where she's made parenting decisions based on her interpretation of the bible in the past, but perhaps they fit in well enough to your own reasoned views that there was no major conflict.

 

It could become a major issue down the road, should other things come up, and even if you win the day on this one by quoting back other parts of the bible (not likely to happen though) it won't prevent this stuff from coming up in the future.

 

If it were me, I'd try to make my wife understand that the apprehension she feels at the idea of raising a daughter irregardless of the bible, I'd feel equal apprehension about raising a daughter irregardless of my own parental instincts and thought processes.

Niether parent will get their way 100%, but if you discuss it and both understand its not just one own's instincts that feel threatened but both parents, that some common ground can be found.

 

The most important thing I hear in what you are saying, is that she needs to understand that she can't say "God is on my side and we out-vote your decision 2 to 1" and have that pass automatically. At the same time, she needs to know you do respect her religious convictions and how important they are to her, so she knows you won't disregard such a conviction simply because you have another idea of how to do things.

[Glider]

Interesting posts.

 

In my opinion, I think you both need to decide what is the important thing here, the consistency (or lack thereof) in the book, or your daughter's wellbeing. Your daughter needs consistant parenting. Conflicting messages from each parent will only confuse her and cause her problems later on.

 

It is up to you and your wife to sort out between yourselves what is the best for your daughter, before issuing edicts unilterally.

 

My personal opinion is that such decisions need to be made without recourse to the bible because small children usually ask "Why?", and I don't believe "Because the bible says so!" is an appropriate answer because it demonstrates to the child a lack of reasoning, no evidence for the decision and the abdication of parental responsibility (but then, I'm an atheist).

 

However, if you turn this into a theological debate with your wife, then you are both sidelining your daughter and putting her second to a book. She won't thank either of you for that once she's old enough to work it out.

[alice]

This is hilarious...you mean there is actually a person who is that devoted to the Bible?...WOW.

 

In my opinion, I don't think it's normal to actually follow every single thing that the Bible says...I'm not saying to not follow it...but let the Bible decide how you make decisions? Dude, that is just too much. You should be able to make your own decisions...I mean your wife...

[alice]

dude,

 

those stuff from the bible forbidding anyone to wear jewelry is applicable only during the olden times. cultures have changed. it wouldn't be a sin wearing a necklace. the bible is there so that a relationship with Jesus can be established not a rule book that should be followed blindly. the bible is not for religion but for a relationship with Jesus Christ. getting to know Him even more. enjoy! God bless dude.

[ParanoiA]

My personal opinion is that such decisions need to be made without recourse to the bible because small children usually ask "Why?", and I don't believe "Because the bible says so!" is an appropriate answer because it demonstrates to the child a lack of reasoning, no evidence for the decision and the abdication of parental responsibility (but then, I'm an atheist).

 

Great, great point. The best in this thread. This is the one to listen to KU.

[YT2095]

and if THAT fails I say grab a big stick and beat her into submission "Spare the Rod, spoil the Wife" or summat like that

[Severian]

Didn't you ever bother to ask your wife what she believes before getting married and having a child?

[ParanoiA]

Didn't you ever bother to ask your wife what she believes before getting married and having a child?

 

That is the burning question isn't it? This comes across to me like a spouse that found god after marriage. I know two or three couples that have gone through this sort of thing - all of them split up.

 

Is that what's happened here KU?

[Pangloss]

Moved from Politics to General.

[ydoaPs]

Didn't you ever bother to ask your wife what she believes before getting married and having a child?

 

Would it be the same if her imaginary friend George insisted that the daughter shouldn't wear jewlry? And if she doesn, George will command his army of pink, invisible fairies to destroy their house!

 

Your religion is yours. You shouldn't go around making others conform to it.....especially children.

[YT2095]

I totaly fail to see the relevence there at all???

 

Sev asked if they`de discussed issues (whatever they maybe)of importance before mariage, that sounds like a More than sensible thing to do for ANY couple regardless.

 

your post however, seems to totaly overlook that ONE and very Simple singular point that he was trying to make!

 

if you`re going to Quote someone, at least make your post ABOUT that quote and not about some Imaginary thing you Thought is said!

[entwined]

I would not "attack" her as you put it in the title of this thread.

 

I would take that same bible that she quotes as the reason for not allowing her daughter to wear jewellery and point out to her the part about a woman being absolutely submissive to her husband and ask her if she believed in that also?

 

If she says no, then ask her how she feels entitled to pick and choose what to believe in and what not to believe in. If, on the other hand, she says yes, then just tell her that you, as the head of the household, as her husband, have decided to allow your daughter to wear jewellery and than is pretty much that.

[ydoaPs]

I totaly fail to see the relevence there at all???

Apparently so. It was quite relevant. The point was that the wife's personal beliefs shouldn't be forced on the child. If the wife doesn't want to wear jewelry because of her religious beliefs, then all the power to her. But forcing your beliefs on someone else(especially a child) is un called for. If she has a reason, other than her religion, for not letting the child wear jewelry, then it's all fine and dandy. For instance, I could deal with "the necklace is expensive and I'm afraid that she'll lose it." However, I don't condone "MY religion doesn't permit HER to wear jewelry".

 

Sev asked if they`de discussed issues (whatever they maybe)of importance before mariage, that sounds like a More than sensible thing to do for ANY couple regardless.

No, he asked if they discussed her beliefs.

 

your post however, seems to totaly overlook that ONE and very Simple singular point that he was trying to make!

you seem to have misread his ONE and very simple singular point that he was trying to make!