Any Evidence That Stones Can Cure, Etc?

[Mokele]

JohnB, your own links on microwaved blood say the problem is hemolysis. Hemolysis *definitely* occurs during digestion, therefore there is no a priori reason to expect illness from microwaved food. The problem is injecting lysed cells into the blood, not eating them.

 

Mokele

[JohnB]

I was preparing a long and detailed response to all of you when I realised we were arguing at cross points.

 

To me there are two questions here, not one.

First question; "Have people died as a result of m/wave heated blood transfusions?"

Second question; "What was the actual case of death?"

 

John Cuthbert asked "Is it an Urban Myth?" and DH resonded "A lot of it is urban myth." I thought both were referring to the first question only and responded. All my comments were directed at the first question. Yes people have died as a result.

 

Using DH's links I showed the answer to the second question, Hemolysis caused by uneven heating. I fail to see how anybody could conclude otherwise. I neither stated nor implied any other possible cause. Just because I defend the fact of an occurrence doesn't mean I defend any particular conclusions that some might draw from the facts.

 

Hades, who on Earth mentioned "vibrational frequency memory"? I didn't. I gave quotes (from DH's links ) to show the problem was hemolysis. How does this somehow translate into the concept that I play with crystals and sing Mantras? Or for that matter that I give any credence whatsoever to any other bullshit that floats around the net?

 

SkepticLance, the quotes from the court were the testimony of expert witnesses. Like you I couldn't give a damn what lawyers say about science. I do care what their witnesses say concerning knowledge in their speciality. BTW, who is Mrs. Jones? (And don't tell Mokele she gets oil out of snakes, he might get upset. )

 

As I said, the problem is Hemolysis. The links showed it and I don't think anyone is arguing against that fact. In the case of IV blood this is caused by uneven heating. This is not a result of m/waves per se as the existence of constant flow m/wave blood heaters shows. It is however the result of how m/waves actually heat things. They cause hot spots where conventional blood heaters do not.

 

It logically follows that hot spots occur in other items heated in a m/wave. I cannot provide proof of any adverse health effect, nor have I claimed to have such proof. I have done nothing more than state my preference to avoid m/waved meats. That's all, nothing more.

 

I happen to place no great faith in anything being declared "safe" as both the R.M.S. Titanic and Thalidomide were declared "safe" by "competent authorities".

 

What I do know, and figures bear me out is that something has been messing with the immune systems of Australians over the last 30 years. ( I can't speak for other nations.) The occurrence of Athsma has increased from 1% to nearly 20% of the population in some areas. The cause for this increase is unknown. Whatever the cause, it is something that has gone from being rare 30 years ago to being common today. M/wave ovens are one of the things that fit this criteria, as are many other things. (For all I know, it could be my CRT monitor. ) I'm not suggesting a link, but until the culprit is found, I'm not ruling it out either. I'm just playing safe by limiting exposure to those things that fit the criteria where I can.

 

It's a personal preference, that's all. (Besides, I hate the taste of m/waved meats. Give me a good grill any day. )

[Hades]

vibrational frequency memory is the mechanism by which propents of non-microwave use contend is the cause for concern. they suggest(rather, explicitly know) the artificial energy, microwaves, which cause rotation of water molecules against their will to produce heat will carry into the body of the person that is eating it these negative vibrational frequencies. by negative i mean consequently, not characteristically. these vibrations then react with heavy metals in the body that are 'vital' for basic cellular function. this is the premise of all rational as to why microwave use is bad.

[swansont]

What I do know, and figures bear me out is that something has been messing with the immune systems of Australians over the last 30 years. ( I can't speak for other nations.) The occurrence of Athsma has increased from 1% to nearly 20% of the population in some areas. The cause for this increase is unknown. Whatever the cause, it is something that has gone from being rare 30 years ago to being common today. M/wave ovens are one of the things that fit this criteria, as are many other things. (For all I know, it could be my CRT monitor. ) I'm not suggesting a link, but until the culprit is found, I'm not ruling it out either. I'm just playing safe by limiting exposure to those things that fit the criteria where I can.

 

 

Post hoc, ergo propter hoc. By that (faulty) reasoning, you should switch off and never use your computer or color TV, too.

 

People do a lot of things differently over the last 30 years. They tend to insulate their houses better, trapping more airborne junk, and spend less time outside. Seems to me that in investigating a respiratory problem, one logical place to look is something that directly affects the lungs.

[SkepticLance]

The leading theory on the asthma problem is increasing hygiene. It appears that there are two modes of resistance to disease. One is triggered by exposure to certain bacteria at an early age. Without that trigger, it is likely to develop in a 'broad spectrum' mode, attacking a wider range of organisms, including sometimes the persons own tissues. In recent decades, young children are far less exposed to infection, and so are far more likely to get the auto-immune defect.

 

Asthma is far less common in children on farms, and children who have pets from an early age, exposing them to the animal's bacteria. It is far less common in third world countries, though death from various bacterial infections is far higher there. The high incidence of asthma is not related to microwave ovens.

 

Incidentally, it has been increasing for 100 years, not 30.

[JohnB]

Hades, "vibrational frequency memory" sounds like the biggest load of Bullsh*t since they cleaned out the road-train, but I don't see the relevence in this conversation. I certainly haven't put the idea forward.

Post hoc, ergo propter hoc. By that (faulty) reasoning, you should switch off and never use your computer or color TV, too.

Nah, we had colour TVs back then. Computers could not be implicated as the asthma levels stabilised in around 1995. There are dozens of possibilities.

 

BTW, athsma is not actually a respiratory complaint as such. It is in fact a malfunction of the immune system that manifests itself as a respiratory complaint. The fault is in the immune system, not the lungs.

The leading theory on the asthma problem is increasing hygiene.

True but there are other competing theories. While Asthma has been on the rise for 100 or so years, the great leaps in the last 30 bear closer examination.

 

Look, I'm not trying to convert anybody, all I've done is voice my personal preference. There are many things that may be responsible for the change, so I treat most (recent) things as possible suspects until the real culprit is found. As I said before, it's a personal preference.