Can Religious Fanaticism be Child Abuse?

[ParanoiA]

It's not that I believe the entire spectrum is ok for a child to view...it's I believe the entire spectrum isn't any more ok for adults than children to view. They are not as fragile as we tend to believe. They are capable of complexity. I don't think anything should be filtered any more than you would filter for yourself. Seems to me we should just answer their questions and don't lead them in negative directions. Shielding does no service to this end.

 

Dirty words and sex is usually what comes to mind when I debate this. Dirty words are only dirty because we say so. That annoys the hell out of me. Let's quit saying so, and then problem solved.

 

Sex is only dirty because we live in a christian nation that has an unhealthy relationship with sexuality. I'm sorry the bible doesn't suggest sex is fun and healthy, but it is. There's nothing negative about it. Except, of course, when grown men cowardly rape their daughters and ruin them mentally...and similar abusive behavior.

 

Edit: Besides Phi and I, who else in this debate has children?

[YT2095]

Edit: Besides Phi and I, who else in this debate has children?

 

I have a Daughter.

[ParanoiA]

I have a Daughter.

 

I have two sons. It's alot easier for me to advocate these things than if I had a daughter. I don't think I could handle a daughter. I wouldn't let her out of the house until she was like...30 or so.

[YT2095]

LOL, Welcome to MY World

[KLB]

I have two sons. It's alot easier for me to advocate these things than if I had a daughter. I don't think I could handle a daughter. I wouldn't let her out of the house until she was like...30 or so.

 

So perspective is everything.

[ParanoiA]

So perspective is everything.

 

Well yes, but keep in mind that's actually an unhealthy dose of overprotection in the form of lame humor...

[KLB]

Well yes, but keep in mind that's actually an unhealthy dose of overprotection in the form of lame humor...

 

Yes of course I understand you were exaggerating a little for effect. My point was simply that sometimes taking a particular position is very easy when one doesn't have to face the reality of different perspectives.

 

Back to the original video, I don't personally know if it raised to the level of child abuse, but it certainly wasn't healthy and it certainly didn't show a mature and healthy way to discuss troubling issues. Her children are bound to learn some of her more troublesome behaviors and this won't help them have healthy happy relationships with others. There were so many better (but less entertaining) ways that she could have dealt with this issue in front of her children.

[ParanoiA]

My point was simply that sometimes taking a particular position is very easy when one doesn't have to face the reality of different perspectives.

 

Yes, that always applies. Although, sometimes perspective doesn't change the validity of the position, but rather confirms the difficulty in following principles.

[Phi for All]

Phi, you ought to know me by now, I question everything.

I get that completely. You are the Devil's Devil's Advocate and that's cool.

Especially time honored traditions and conditioned behaviors - things we all do without even thinking about them - like "shielding" our children from reality. I love to question that stuff. This is not unhealthy.

I think you're caught up with the idea that adults don't get any protection from life (reality) as it comes to us so why should kids? It's not so much shielding them from reality as feeding them palatable bites instead of shoving the whole turkey down their throats.

We put poisons where toddlers can't reach them because they'll hurt themselves.

And the reason they'll get hurt is because no amount of explaining at that age is going to mitigate the effects of that poison should they ingest it. We'd have to explain too many complicated concepts to get them to understand why they shouldn't put *this stuff* in their mouths.

We cover their eyes during sex scenes because we associate sex as a dirty thing while violence is perfectly fine.

Not me. First off, my eight year old doesn't see any sex scenes beyond a PG-13 rating so we don't need to cover her eyes. And secondly, violence is *not* perfectly fine, not the way you put it here. Again, we talk about concepts as they occur and if I see her emulating something violent then we have a talk. If by "perfectly fine" you mean she can watch any violent thing she wants or act violently then I definitely disagree.

You had no issues explaining violence while your child watched, but this never occured to you about sexuality?

Sexuality and porn have very little in common, imo. We do talk about sexuality as it affects her eight-year-old life. Right now kissing and hugging is all she really cares about when it comes to sexuality. She knows the technicalities of intercourse but rarely asks anything about it, which tells me she's not ready to know.

Why would porn be so bad? Other than I can't think of a good reason why a kid should see it..I really don't see a bad one either.

Porn glamorizes a few aspects of sex and doesn't give a very realistic view either (much like assuming the lady in the OP's video is typically religious). It also tends to show that men want only one thing and that a woman needs to cater to that need to be attractive. I don't believe that so I hope to be able to get far enough in her sexuality development to express my views before she gets to watch porn and assume it's normal.

It feels wrong, because I and you and probably everyone in the country has been taught the same backwards thinking about how sex is dirty and bad and violence is kick ass.

Um, no to the sex-is-dirty and another no to the violence-is-kick ass. Maybe I'm an anomaly but I'm not big on violence as a problem solver. I think I know what you mean about sexual hang-ups, especially in the US, but that's not why I don't want my daughter to watch porn until she understands more about normal sex.

If my child can take the media scaring the hell out of him with terrorism, he can handle porn. If my child can watch grown men kill each other on TV then he can handle porn.

Your children must be older than mine, or you must watch more grown-up television in front of them than I do. My daughter does *not* watch the news.

You think that you don't lack the complexity of knowledge and experience to handle *every* aspect of the raw, unfiltered world? Kids are more resilient than adults, if anything your child could handle it better than you. Children have a level of adaptability that adults don't have.

Adaptability? I think it's the filter I've been talking about. Don't understand it, blank it out. But if it's traumatic they take a mental snapshot and it disturbs them because they have no context.

It seems to me, if children grew up in an atmosphere where we're not "shielding" them from everything, then they won't be so curious and stupid about it when they get older. Instead of learning about sex when their 14, eager to do it by 15, pregnant by 16 - they could have learned about sex when they were 8, weren't eager to do it since they didn't have the hormones and physiological make-up to be eager about it, not such a big deal at 15, pregnant when they're ready.

That would be nice, but now we're back to the utopian world you were arguing against.

I'm totally out on a limb here, no doubt. But consider how other cultures don't shield so much in sexuality and language. Look at the UK. I don't have the numbers myself, but I believe they enjoy a lower sex crime rate and lack of idiots that are "offended" by such things - and they are far more liberal about sexuality. It's just not as big of a deal to their youth. They're exposed to this sort of thing regularly on TV.

Unbalanced equation. They have other things they're all messed up about. They drink warm beer.

I have to wonder if part of that is because their society, their parents, didn't make a big deal out of it. Kids are curious, they want to learn. They're especially curious about what you hide from them, or shield from them. A natural rebel of sorts. We always joke about how kids want to do what you won't let them. Maybe we should stop hiding or shielding, and get started "teaching". Show them the world, rather than spotting up the picture with blackout.

With this I agree. It's human nature to want what you can't have. But it's up to parents with more experience to know what their kids can handle.

Well yeah. What did you think I meant? I'm just saying, why do I cover up my 10 year old son's eyes when there's a nude scene? Why do I insist on plugging his ears during the moaning and porn style music? What on earth am I afraid of?

Why is your 10 year old watching a movie with you that *has* a nude scene? I have no compunction against telling my daughter that certain movies are just for grown-ups.

I'm basically passing on my insecurites and conditioned behavior onto him. For what? Because I'm afraid a 10 year old would know what sex looks like? But it's no problem for him to see what a severed head looks like?

Again, severed heads would come under the heading of grownup movie and my daughter wouldn't even have to be sheltered. She'd be in bed asleep before my wife and I started such a film.

Come on...none of this really means anything. How is any of that going to hurt him. How does it "jade" his behavior?

Wait while I compile a list of studies from various psychiatric sources. This may take a while....

Now, how do you get that? How do you connect the dots here? If he watches a sex scene at 10, he might abuse his lover when he grows up? If a child is not shielded, rather exposed to everything, then he will likely have seen hundreds of sex scenes by the time he's old enough to have a lover. I doubt every single one of them is going to be a rape scene. That's the only thing I can think of that would make that connection.

You're extending the picture further than I did. I was only talking about porn and you're including all movie sex scenes.

Again, I'm just going to close in saying that everything is relative. If you present sexuality as a natural, good, healthy, fun thing from day one, then there's no reason for them to feel bad or associate anything negative with it.

With this I can agree.

This is why it's so easy to watch violence - for all of us. We've been doing it since the day we were born. We are completely desensitized to it. We can watch all kinds of blood and gore, with our kids right there next to us, and most of us don't give it a second thought.

Most of *you*. Some of *us* give it lots of thought.

I wonder if all reality should be exposed for what it is from day one. Giving children a chance to "get over" the real world, rather than be so easily shocked and awed about things that really aren't very shocking or awesome.

It's flowery when you say it that way and it appeals to the truthfinder in all of us. But reality is not necessarily reality and none of it is necessarily the real world. Ask yourself this: do you want to want to help your children accept reality or help them make reality?

[Ladyhelix]

I watched the tape with horror, that lady has got mental health issues, whoever is winding her up to such fanaticism (sp?) needs talking to as well

 

I am so pleased that this has been caught on tape

 

It is innate in children to beleive every word their parents tell them, I was told at a young age about 3 that god was watching me, then when I was 5 my brother told me that if I didnt say my prayers the devil would come and get me in my sleep, I didnt sleep peacefully again until i was apporx 29/30, I had the fear of god in me

 

You have to be very careful what you do say and feel in front of and around children

 

I thought the belief in God (higher power) is supposed to enrich your life and fill you with peace, this was a classic example of an angry scared human, woman possessed with the devill springs to mind

 

this woman should not be around children no more than a terrorist should be around a child, and what a jelly belly of a husband

 

I think social services should insist that she attend parenting classes

 

My opinion is based on being a mother and a grandmother, speaking of which where was her mother, I tell you my daughter wouldnt get away with behaving like that in front of my grandchildren she needs a good slap to calm her right down lol

 

Seriously it is child abuse because it abuses the childs ability to think for themselves and to think outside of the parents box, plus making children fearful by whatever means is abusive in this case although not physical most certainly mental and emotional abuse