Drug War

[Radical Edward]

fafalone said in post # :

So you think alcohol and tobacco should also be illegal? Because cause health problems as severe or worse than drugs?

 

no, because I was being facetious.

[fafalone]

There are no severe health consequences for occaisional recreational use of even heroin.

 

Psychological problems from hallucinogens are rare and not caused by the drug, but rather brought out by the drug. And there's simply no evidence to suggest these problems wouldn't arise eventually anyway.

[fafalone]

Radical Edward said in post # :

 

no, because I was being facetious.

 

Then some explanation is order, because the premature fatality rate of lifetime smokers is higher than the fatality rate for users of many (not all) illegal drugs.

[Radical Edward]

numbers?

[Radical Edward]

fafalone said in post # :

There are no severe health consequences for occaisional recreational use of even heroin.

 

Psychological problems from hallucinogens are rare and not caused by the drug, but rather brought out by the drug. And there's simply no evidence to suggest these problems wouldn't arise eventually anyway.

 

those are all health risks. are there any others you can think of?

[fafalone]

Like I said, no one has ever died from LSD or DMT (myths circulate about people jumping off roofs and such, but theres no real evidence for it)

[Radical Edward]

so?

[fafalone]

That would mean the death rate among lifelong LSD and DMT users is zero, which is much less than the death rate among smokers and binge drinkers.

[Radical Edward]

does that really matter?

[fafalone]

Smoking is responsible for nearly 1 in 5 deaths in the United States. Between 1990 and 1997, approximately 430,700 people died each year due to smoking.

About 10 million people in the United States have died from smoking-related illnesses since the first Surgeon General's report on smoking and health in 1964.

Each year, more Americans die from smoking-related diseases than from alcohol, AIDS, drug abuse, car accidents, fire, suicide and murder — combined.

Generally, smokers die 10 to 12 years younger than nonsmokers. Smokers between the ages of 35 and 70 have death rates 3 times higher than nonsmokers from the same age group.

 

 

Here are drug deaths in the UK:

http://www.urban75.com/Drugs/drugdeath.html

 

Here are drug usage numbers in the UK for around the same year:

http://www.drugsalcohol.info/drugs/default.asp?s=B&d=B90

[Radical Edward]

oh raw numbers are ace but meaningless unless organised into a proper framework.

[fafalone]

I told you the framework and you asked for the numbers!!

 

Radical Edward said in post # :

numbers?

[Radical Edward]

they are a bit raw though. It is not like it is easy to make any sort of real analysis from them though.

[fafalone]

Take the estimated number of users, divide with the number of reported deaths... and theres your death rate... compare to the death rate of alcohol users and smokers.

[Radical Edward]

that is a rather oversimplistic analysis don't you think?

 

not that it matters,

[fafalone]

Considering we're comparing drug death rates with alcohol/tobacco death rates, approximations are good enough, and it does matter because its the entire point.

[Radical Edward]

no it isn't the entire point though, and it is not possible to assess the validity of the approximations.

[fafalone]

Sources: Social Trends, pub. Office of National Statistics, based on research from the Institute for the Study of Drug Dependence. These figures cover 1994-6, and are reproduced as released by the ONS. 1999

 

 

1999, Social Trends 23 by the Office for National Statistics

 

 

Those seem like pretty reliable sources of statistics to me.

[Radical Edward]

because I don't care about the health aspects though, that would not be helped by legalization and education?

[fafalone]

So what non-health aspects make drugs so much worse than alcohol/tobacco?

[Radical Edward]

I am not comparing them to alcohol and tobacco.

 

However the way I see it is this. Anything that people are willing to do despite risking the symptom of "prisoners arse*" should be illegal. People take drugs, despite them being illegal. This risks the occurence of prisoners arse, and hence taking these drugs should be illegal. The only way for it to be legalased is if people are not willing to do it on account of not wishing to suffer that symptom.

 

 

*that's ass for americans.

[fafalone]

It costs the taxpayers 450,000 to imprison someone for a 5 year drug sentence, and 450,000 could be used to treat 200 addicts and fund lots of education; not to mention the fact that drug convictions ruin lives and destroy families more frequently than drug use alone. This is the best way to go why?

[Radical Edward]

It doesn't matter. the very fact that they are willing to risk prisoners arse to do it means that it should be illegal.

 

ok, time for bed now. g'night.

[fafalone]

That's the weakest pro-drug law argument I've ever heard.

[Radical Edward]

well would you risk doing something that is illegal, which could result in prisoners arse?