Light in a Box

[foodchain]

I am trying to grasp a concept or concepts a bit better visually and I thought via this question that I could get a good start into such.

 

If you have photons being emitted in say a box made of matter, though the box itself is not emitting the photons, why is it exactly that the light never escapes this shape to outside of it? Or is redirected back into the box? Is some other kind of energy emitted outside of the box as it is hit by the photons?

 

Basically another example is if you have a sealed box, and you turn a light on inside of it, will any of the energy or light ever be able to get outside of the box?

 

I am trying to understand I guess how a sealed box of matter would act with light inside of it, would the density of the surface matter? Or composition of such, like a box made of diamond would allow for you to see the light inside, so I guess that means the light was able to escape the box if it was diamond, but not if the box was steel?

 

I am trying to grasp atomic structure and its relation to interactions with energy really... Being I think the movement of orbital could be magnified somehow via these interactions into some form of visibility, but I cant visualize such well enough to really think about it.

[Sisyphus]

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking, but, depending on the material, the light will either be reflected, absorbed, or pass through. If the inside is a perfectly reflective mirror, the light will just bounce around endlessly inside. If it's transparent, like glass or diamond, it will refract and pass through. For most materials, though, it will just be absorbed. Different materials will absord and reflect different wavelengths of light, which is perceived by us (at least with regards to visible wavelengths) as the material's color. One photon is absorbed by one atom, which then has higher energy electrons. That energy can be reemitted as a different photon, of very specific wavelengths which depend on the orbital states of that specific atom.

[foodchain]

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking, but, depending on the material, the light will either be reflected, absorbed, or pass through. If the inside is a perfectly reflective mirror, the light will just bounce around endlessly inside. If it's transparent, like glass or diamond, it will refract and pass through. For most materials, though, it will just be absorbed. Different materials will absord and reflect different wavelengths of light, which is perceived by us (at least with regards to visible wavelengths) as the material's color. One photon is absorbed by one atom, which then has higher energy electrons. That energy can be reemitted as a different photon, of very specific wavelengths which depend on the orbital states of that specific atom.

 

Side note, if you could trap light for eternity in a mirrored box, say you did this in zero gravity, would not the box from the continuous introduction of photons eventually gain mass?

 

I think overall that energy might be a possible way to study atomic structure. The Hubble telescope function as applied to looking at atomic structure, is such possible? I mean if I continuously apply light to some moving object that should be portrayed by the light right, the movement that is, versus a non moving object. Maybe an example would be water in a glass, one in a whirlpool motion and one glass being holding water that is close to a stand still in regards to motion. I mean if you heat say a atom of gold up, and then shoot it with a photon, would there be any difference in the interaction say if the atom was much colder? If you could make say a control group, where the variables such as the energy level of the atom overall, and its place in time a space was always the same, would you get any difference when you apply a photon to it when conducted many times over?

[swansont]

I'm not sure exactly what you're asking, but, depending on the material, the light will either be reflected, absorbed, or pass through. If the inside is a perfectly reflective mirror, the light will just bounce around endlessly inside. If it's transparent, like glass or diamond, it will refract and pass through. For most materials, though, it will just be absorbed. Different materials will absord and reflect different wavelengths of light, which is perceived by us (at least with regards to visible wavelengths) as the material's color. One photon is absorbed by one atom, which then has higher energy electrons. That energy can be reemitted as a different photon, of very specific wavelengths which depend on the orbital states of that specific atom.

 

But there can be no such thing as a perfecty reflective material, due to the momentum change that occurs upon reflection. That means momentum, and thus energy, must be transferred to the mirror.

 

The notion that the box itself is not emitting photons is flawed. All objects radiate depending on their temperature, and the power varies as T⁴. As the light inside the box is absorbed, the box's temperature will rise and it will radiate more. If there is a photon source inside (a light bulb) then you will eventually reach thermal equilibrium. If the interior source is a blackbody, then you will end up with a similar distribution from the outer surface, though I think it will be shifted (lower temperature) due to the larger surface area, and possibly modified by a different emissivity.

[swansont]

Side note, if you could trap light for eternity in a mirrored box, say you did this in zero gravity, would not the box from the continuous introduction of photons eventually gain mass?

 

Yes.

 

I think overall that energy might be a possible way to study atomic structure. The Hubble telescope function as applied to looking at atomic structure, is such possible? I mean if I continuously apply light to some moving object that should be portrayed by the light right, the movement that is, versus a non moving object. Maybe an example would be water in a glass, one in a whirlpool motion and one glass being holding water that is close to a stand still in regards to motion. I mean if you heat say a atom of gold up, and then shoot it with a photon, would there be any difference in the interaction say if the atom was much colder? If you could make say a control group, where the variables such as the energy level of the atom overall, and its place in time a space was always the same, would you get any difference when you apply a photon to it when conducted many times over?

 

Saying you heat up a single atom is kind of meaningless. Heat and temperature are applied to macroscopic systems.

 

An atom with some kinetic energy will have a different resonance (depending on the direction of motion) due to the Doppler shift, for photon absorption and emission. This is observed in moving systems.

 

If you had a collection of atoms (as a vapor), then the absorption profile would be Doppler-broadened, and this would depend on the temperature.

[foodchain]

Yes.

 

 

 

Saying you heat up a single atom is kind of meaningless. Heat and temperature are applied to macroscopic systems.

 

An atom with some kinetic energy will have a different resonance (depending on the direction of motion) due to the Doppler shift, for photon absorption and emission. This is observed in moving systems.

 

If you had a collection of atoms (as a vapor), then the absorption profile would be Doppler-broadened, and this would depend on the temperature.

 

Most of my understandin of atomic structure comes typically at this point from my chemistry dictionary and websites really.

 

With that said looking at the atomic model in relation to orbital of say the s,p,d,f series or model I was basically just wondering about internal mechanics of an atom as it would relate to study via energy interaction. Say for two atoms with similar structure, would you get similar behavior by using an exact duplicate of a photon in relation to variables that compose the photon upon interaction with the atom to photon? I mean I know for intensive purposes the chemistry of an atom does not go past electrons for the most part, but going beyond simply chemistry to the rest of the atom. For instance when two elements are bonded, regardless of type of bond, you get something that will behave differently, or the interactions of matter and energy will then change. Its still though just formations of subatomic particles and various forces, but something does indeed change for the behavior to change, such as simply becoming a material that is useful in landing gear for planes, but the two elements that compose it by themselves are not.

 

Overall I think the interaction energy has with matter has to hold some pathway for the study of atomic structure and function, I would not drive so much for this save I think a great many things could be understood if we could even simply fully understand a hydrogen atom. Quantum mechanics is to be able to describe such, but in relality has it been taken past the hydrogen atom yet? Some chemical reactions leave matter that is temporarily magnetic to this.

 

“A zwitterion (from German "Zwitter" — "hybrid," "hermaphrodite") is a chemical compound that is electrically neutral but carries formal positive and negative charges on different atoms.[1] Zwitterions are polar and usually have a high solubility in water and a poor solubility in most organic solvents.

Ampholytes are molecules that contain both acidic and basic groups (and are therefore amphoteric) and will exist as zwitterions at a certain pH. This pH is known as the molecule's isoelectric point. Ampholytic molecules make good buffer solutions — they resist change to the pH of a solution by selective ionisation. In the presence of acids, they will accept the hydrogen ions, removing them from the solution. In the presence of bases, they will donate hydrogen ions to the solution, again balancing the pH.”

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zwitterion

 

We get such natural phenomena from atoms which has to come from structure and or function, yet for what its worth there is some sort of barrier really in getting inside the atom which basically leads to quantum mechanics not being fully worth what it should be and of course wave-particle duality and all that other stuff. Such as the idea of matter gaining mass from energy, I mean such would still occur right even if the matter itself was not having any change in say momentum, acceleration or velocity.

[swansont]

Overall I think the interaction energy has with matter has to hold some pathway for the study of atomic structure and function, I would not drive so much for this save I think a great many things could be understood if we could even simply fully understand a hydrogen atom. Quantum mechanics is to be able to describe such, but in relality has it been taken past the hydrogen atom yet? Some chemical reactions leave matter that is temporarily magnetic to this.

 

 

Yes, people study the structure of atomic/molecular states. It's called spectroscopy.

[foodchain]

Yes, people study the structure of atomic/molecular states. It's called spectroscopy.

 

Right I have heard of that before and I understand you are probably confused by my lack of understanding:D Thanks for the participation though its very nice.

 

See I read all this stuff and I will admit its actually kept me up at nights, but the part I realize is that I don’t know enough to really think about it, so what I do think of is probably loaded to the teeth with flaws thus why I post it hear because people like yourself know a great deal more about such.

 

So for my answer I guess it would be that the box would emit a type of energy, just not the original photon, and if it did the angle of the photon would be back into the box, maybe unless it got to be to much energy such as when metal glows white hot or such, am I close on that one? I am still off wondering about gluons and glueballs for the most part and I really wish science had some way to directly view an atom on an atomic level and even smaller, I want to see an image of a quark darn it or even a full motion movie about one, real footage and all.

[swansont]

If your photon source is bright enough, the enclosure would glow in the visible. But the radiated power will be constant, in equilibrium, so the temperature gets smaller as the surface area gets larger.

 

The thermal photons from the enclosure get emitted in both directions, too, and those sent inward will eventually get re-absorbed.