electrolysis with AC ?

[SH3RL0CK]

I thought the "sweet spot" was 0 Hz.

 

If all you are trying to do is validate your belief that certain frequencies are better than others, then you will need some kind of frequency generator. A computer sound card will work, and is cheap, but the power output is relatively low.

 

How about using a sound amplifier (such as normally powers stereo speakers) where you should be able to apply more power (at a still relatively cheap cost)?

[ben123324]

this is all good, but has anyone here tried electrolysis with a bridge rectifyer? that would give you 120hz of dc pulses. i would have tried it already, but i am kinda woried about what could happen. if anyone here can tell me what distance h2o breaks down at il try it, because i dont want an underwater arc.

-ben

 

 

 

 

"Good questions, which prompt me to ask another: Just how low can the reversal rate be and still qualify as AC current? Do we just blindly assume the normal domestic frequency? Without having any experimental evidence, Would I reasonably expect different results if current was reversed every hour or two? And supposing the current and/or voltage changed with each reversal? "

 

you have to remember that ac has "waves" so if you had an ac extremely low hz(maybe 12hours) you would have the voltage rise 20 volts per hour, or .32 volts per minute. you would only recieve the peak voltage of 120 for a period of 1 minute, every 6 hours, and one of those peaks would be -120 rather than the +120 that you want.

Edited November 4, 2010 by ben123324

[ben123324]

alright, last night i set up a small scale expirament and found out rectifyed ac works exeptionaly well at least at the 12v level. i used a bridge rectifyer from 4 diodes, and the output 120hz 12vac of positive bursts created quite a alot of bubles even at this scale. think that if you had large diodes, and a safe setup this would be a great way to get hydrogen. (when you rectify the whole wave of 60hz, you get 120, i didnt use anything other than standard mains at a lower voltage)

Edited November 5, 2010 by ben123324

[physicist danny]

so you guys have established that ac electrolysis works. http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/53735-single-electrode-electrolysis/ when i was looking at voltage controlled liquid lenses i saw the kind of set up represented by this experiment crudely drawn in paint and wondered if at higher voltages or different frequencies could electrolysis occur with just one electrode?

[solar711]

I once did the experiment, and well, things do happen. We have 50 Hz AC, and what is observed is formation of bubbles at both electrodes. I did the electrolysis with copper electrodes in NaCl. At both sides there were bubbles, and both electrodes are corroded. The bubbles are hydrogen gas.

 

I also did the experiment with carbon electrodes and with 220 V AC (VERY DANGEROUS!!!!), using a very dilute solution of NaCl. The effect of that is formation of gas, and sometimes ignition of gas bubbles under water, near the electrodes. I slowly increased the concentration of NaCl, and at a certain point, I got a nice continuous stream of gas, with sparks of miniature explosions every few tenths of a second. These sparks most likely are due to ignition of gas mixed of H2 and Cl2 and/or H2 and O2. Using too high a concentration of NaCl makes the reaction too vigorous and quite hot.

 

I strongly discourage someone else to repeat this, unless you are really experienced with working with high voltages in wet environments. This experiment is DANGEROUS, due to severe electrical shock risks. You cannot say I did not warn you!

 

i figure its because the room tempurature needs to be wayyyy below zero degrees celcius.

 

 

i figure its because the room tempurature needs to be wayyyy below zero degrees celcius.

^^^^ i mean the reason you are getting miniature explosions is due to the tempurature of the HHO aka browns gas (oxyhydrogen)

 

youd might wanna try and remove the oxygen and just store the hydrogen ( making HHO just hdrogen) you would not get any explosions.

 

this is just my look on it so far. i could be wrong.

[sheldysheldon]

The H2O tetrahedron joins with other tetrahedrons to form a platonic solid cube.

 

Normally the bond angle is experimentally found to be 104 degrees and the bond is flexible. By using a double side band AM modulated AC signal, you can change the bond angle to 109 degrees and 28 minutes. This makes the tetrahedron rigid.

 

The way to shatter the water molecule is to put that SSB AC signal into a resonant circuit. You need to use a minimum of two frequencies one is about 610 hz and the other probably 20 times that 12,200hz. One frequency vibrates the molecular bond and the other the atomic bond.

 

The frequency should both sweep back and forth and vary in intensity 2-3 times per second in order to roll the molecule to enhance the fracturing process.

 

It appears that both Meyer and Puharich also used ceramics and I suspect that a piezo effect was present. Puharich speaks of phonon production in his 5 part lecture located on youtube and is a must see if you are interested.

 

The work of Both Meyer and Puharich is based on the work of John Keeley.

 

The place to start is to build a DSB mixer to produce the RF signal with a 600hz carrier and 12,200 hz modulation.

 

It does not violate thermodynamics since it is an open system with an external fuel and power source and it does not violate Faraday since it is not DC electrolysis. It is a fracturing or cleaving process. Use a high voltage anode to remove electrons and prevent recombination.

 

The rate of production will easily allow you to run an engine on nothing but water. It has been done many times by many people.

 

Hope that helps.

 

PS - If you get caught doing it, the corrupt government will place you under a section 35 part 109 secrecy order.

 

Interesting concept, I would like to expand on this theory by asking some questions. If the frequencies you suggest are correct for resonance of the water molecule and you are using of course AC current then would the electrode distance and the insulation factor of the water create a working capacitor. If true could you create an RLC circuit that resonates at these frequencies by applying just dc? Is using water as an insulator a feasable idea to create a water capacitor? water capacitor that equals x=farads based upon construction and dielectric.

[aliabbas]

while i was about 12 yr old home alone kid i did this AC electrolysis with salt water just for fun and tried electroplating with it , it worked somewhat , but the best thing i discovered was that applying electrolysis direct from 230v AC(asia) to the soil in a potted flowering plant to cause the periwinkle flowers to bloom really well the next day, a highly noticeable difference!. I used to be in an electrolysismania and tried electrolysing all types of liquids and substances!, but now i am doin phd in another field , just made an acc to share this!

Edited January 29, 2013 by aliabbas

[Stew_PID]

It is a quite old topic, but I must say AC electrolysis exists. It was used, and I think it is still used for the preparation of oxide layers on aluminum surfaces. It is called WGX process. You are absolutely right when you say, that the role of anode and cathode was changed periodically, but some chemical changes can not follow this, so some nascent oxygen remains in the solution which oxidizes the surface of the object.

[darkath]

just would like to say a quick thing, a while ago I got 2 huge old batteries (dc of course) when I doubled the amps by connecting them and stuck wires connected to the terminals in water, bubbles flowed (cannot remember if it was from one or both) and they turned green. just wanted to add that little tidbit. oh also i cannot for the life remeber, but may have been different materials of wire, will repeat experiment and check back in. last thing, i am building a techno staff there is a little doorbell buzzer and a dc to ac transformer (i think) link to youtube here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3EROJapXhvA&list=PLyBqLJCvODlfvvKeKEnmXSwCFDbNq4Ln2&index=2 would this work to transform water to flamable gasses? thankyou

[Sensei]

just would like to say a quick thing, a while ago I got 2 huge old batteries (dc of course) when I doubled the amps by connecting them and stuck wires connected to the terminals in water, bubbles flowed (cannot remember if it was from one or both) and they turned green.

Green color can be from Copper Hydroxide.

Does it look similar?