Similarity of metaphysics between lucid dreaming and reality

[mbarone]

Hello, I'm new to this board, but philosophy is something I mull over constantly.

 

I wanted to propose an interesting discussion: Is it possible that lucid dreaming is exactly the same as waking life but occurring in a different state of energy? I believe it is. In both states, you are aware of yourself and look outward towards people, events, and locations that are affected by your thoughts, beliefs, and attitudes.

 

I learned more about reality through actually lucid dreaming than any attempt made in waking life.

 

What do you think?

 

For more information, check out the site in my sig - is it recruiting people to help contribute to and disseminate information such as this, a noble cause.

[Sisyphus]

I wanted to propose an interesting discussion: Is it possible that lucid dreaming is exactly the same as waking life but occurring in a different state of energy?

 

I have no idea what that means, and I'm pretty sure you don't, either.

[gonelli]

I don't really follow with what you're saying, but are you saying that "lucid dreaming" is like another dimention/universe/life in which our minds exist?

[insane_alien]

you're not too clued up on energy are you?

[gonelli]

probably not not enought to understand this topic, so i am officially lost now

[insane_alien]

not you. the first guy. not sure what you're like yet so i can't say anything about you.

[ShredBoy]

Being a fellow lucid dreamer, I understand your enthusiasm for the subject. Does it give us new insight into energy and physics? I have no idea. I've learned a lot more about myself through lucid dreams, but I wouldn't go as far as to say I've learned more about reality.

 

It is an odd stroke of synchronicity that I stumbled across this thread the moment I came to this site. Maybe I should put the Pinchbeck book down.

[Kailassa]

I wanted to propose an interesting discussion: Is it possible that lucid dreaming is exactly the same as waking life but occurring in a different state of energy? I believe it is. In both states, you are aware of yourself and look outward towards people, events, and locations that are affected by your thoughts, beliefs, and attitudes.

 

Yes, lucid dreaming could be a similar state to waking life; waking life could be just another dream.

 

Last time I had a "lucid dream" I had gone to bed too late and had to get up early the next morning to greet the new gardener and explain what I wanted done. I was dreaming, and knew I was dreaming, and remembered that the alarm would be going off soon so I could have time to get decent before the gardener arrived. It seemed like it would be smart to wake myself up properly then and get dressed in something comfortable enough to sleep in so I could then sleep until I heard a knock at the door. So I woke properly, turned the alarm off, put clothes on over my little t-shirt, and went back to sleep.

 

A few hours later I was woken by a knock on the door and, aware that I'd dressed already and was wearing a warm, decent tracksuit, jumped up to meet the gardener. We strolled around the garden while I explained what I wanted done, but, try as I might, I could not seen to put him at ease. He was so tense, and giving me the strangest looks.

 

Walking back inside I noticed my reflection and realised why the gardener was acting funny. I was still as under-dressed as when I first went to bed.

 

Sadly, this was not a dream I could wake up from.

[alan2here]

Sadly, this was not a dream I could wake up from.

That mean it wasn't a dream and you had just done something embarrising or it took you ages after that to wake up?

 

 

 

 

mbarone, what you need to do is decide on which of the two following statements is most relevent to you.

 

 

A. Im a lucid dreamer intrested in the psychology of lucid dreaming and how it works in the brain.

 

B. Im a lucid dreamer and I want to hear more peoples experances of lucid dreaming and lurn from them how to do it better.

 

C. Im a spiritualist and belive all sorts on nonsencical more religious idea about ludid dreaming like remote viewing.

 

 

If the answer is A then go here

http://www.scienceforums.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=50

 

If the answer is B then go to thease places

http://www.dreamviews.com/

http://www.lucidity.com/LucidDreamingFAQ2.html

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2204796176

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2212210107

http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=2208565137

 

If the answer is C then go elsewhere

 

Also you may find this usefull

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucid_dreaming

[Kailassa]

That mean it wasn't a dream and you had just done something embarrassing or it took you ages after that to wake up?

 

I'm sad to say it was the former.

 

I don't know how the alarm got turned off, but possibly I'd forgotten to set it in the first place.

 

The gardener, btw, was very polite and never referred to it again; he just looked rather disappointed when I opened the door wearing a tracksuit the next week.

[JohnF]

Perhaps he's asking if lucid dreaming could be another reality, just as valid as the one we are in. For me it isn't another reality. I know it's a dream and I know I can do whatever I want without consequence. I prefer ordinary dreams now.

 

Has anyone read The Number Of The Beast by Heinlein? In that story he proposes that stories come from the author glimpsing an alternate reality/universe where the fiction is a reality. He has a machine that can take you to these universes where he meets people from other stories.

[Comandante]

I don't know how the alarm got turned off, but possibly I'd forgotten to set it in the first place.

 

It's very possible that you turned it off when it sounded without remembering that you did, happend to me a LOT, it was only later in the day that I actually came to recall that I turned it off!

 

As for that waking-life thing, maybe someone could give us a little introduction to that, or a definition?

[Kailassa]

As for that waking-life thing, maybe someone could give us a little introduction to that, or a definition?

 

I know some people here look down on Wikipedia, but the article on "False Awakening" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_awakening ) is well referenced and explains it well.

 

"A false awakening is an event in which someone dreams they have awakened from sleep. This illusion of having awakened is very convincing to the person. After a false awakening, people will usually dream of performing daily morning rituals, believing they have truly awakened. A dream in which a false awakening takes place is sometimes colloquially referred to as a "double dream". ...

 

A false awakening may occur either following an ordinary dream or following a lucid dream (one in which the dreamer has been aware that he or she is dreaming). Particularly if the false awakening follows a lucid dream, the false awakening may turn into a ‘pre-lucid dream'(Green, 1968), that is, one in which the dreamer may start to wonder if he or she is really awake and may or may not come to the correct conclusion. More commonly, dreamers will believe they are awake."

 

There have been some periods in my life where I have experienced so much false awakening that it has been a real problem. These periods have always been associated with long term severe overtiredness.

 

One example was when a handicapped child of mine was a baby with a condition which made him frequently stop breathing so that I would have to resuscitate him.

Daytimes were busy running a small farm and minding the older children, and I had to be half awake all night to keep my baby alive.

 

Sometimes I would accidentally sleep properly, and then my dreams would be a night-long cycle of getting up to look after the crying baby, hearing him cry again, realising I had only been dreaming I'd looked after him last time and getting up to look after him properly, then hearing him cry again and realising again that I'd only dreamed I'd looked after him ... The strange thing was that each time I thought I was awake I was aware that I had dreamed this already, but was still convinced that this time I was really awake. Slow learner, I guess.

 

The nearest doctor was a half-hour drive away and he wanted me to bring my baby to him while his heart was not beating in order to make a diagnosis. I explained the only diagnosis he'd have to make then would be one any unqualified fool could make; "dead".

[Comandante]

I know some people here look down on Wikipedia, but the article on "False Awakening" ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_awakening ) is well referenced and explains it well.

 

I take it you're implying that waking-life is the same as "false awakening" ? In my initial status I did not come across that second term so I did not find a wiki article you came up with (thanks) and thus the reason why I asked for it in the first place. Otherwise I readily relate to Wikipedia. Now I realise Waking Life is actually a movie that has something to do with dreaming. Never heard of it. So to confirm, is false awakening same as waking-life to which mbarone was referring to?

[Kailassa]

So to confirm, is false awakening same as waking-life to which mbarone was referring to?

I was only guessing that, by waking-life, you meant false awakening.

If you meant something different I apologise for the confusion.

 

I would interpret mbarone's use of "waking life" as meaning the normal state of being awake.

[Comandante]

No problems at all. We'll just wait for mbarone to clarify.

[alan2here]

False awakenings can cause you to loose lucidity and can happen sevral times before you eventually do wake up. However they can be used usefully.

 

Sorry to go so off topic but that stuff in the flask on Sysco's picture appears to be glowing verry impressivly.

[Kailassa]

False awakenings can cause you to loose lucidity and can happen sevral times before you eventually do wake up. However they can be used usefully.

 

How can you use a false awakening?

 

You have no lucidity in a situation in which you are dreaming but believe you are awake. You are doing nothing but sleeping.

[alan2here]

Apparently if you are about to wake up and you trigger them on purpose (one way is supposed to be to spin around verry fast) and pay attention to staying lucid it can stop you from actually walking up and you stay asleap longer, I should immagine it is hard to keep points of refrance while doing this but apparently it works.

 

Another usefull thing is supposed to be to keep hold of something so you can feel in in your hand, as you actually wake up you can feal for the longest giving you a point where you can re-enter the dream if you can drift of to sleep again.

 

I havn't been able to try any of thease things as I have not been verry lucid while asleap for verry long for quite some time.

[Kailassa]

Right ...

 

So I'll try to remember while I'm still asleep to spin around very fast to make myself more likely to stay asleep.

 

If it works I'll let you know.

[Comandante]

Sorry to go so off topic but that stuff in the flask on Sysco's picture appears to be glowing verry impressivly.

 

If you like it take a look at this thread; http://www.scienceforums.net/forum/showthread.php?t=24617 it has a larger image from the same experiment

 

Where's mbarone gone now?

[alan2here]

Thanks for the link Sysco

 

 

to make myself more likely to stay asleep.

 

Or more precisly to give yourself a false awakening which has the disadvantege that you end up somewhere that is verry simmerlar to you'r bedroom but can help you stay asleap if you are waking up.

 

Its quite advanced there is lots of simpler more fun stuff to try like trying to step though mirrors or fly.

 

I never lurned any of the reality check stuff, I just got lucid dreams though nightmares that don't happen now which is why I have lost the abbility somewhat.

[carol]

I always encounter this idea in philosophy. i think i would consider lucid dreaming the same as waking life or lucid dreaming be another reality if the two feels the same. I mean, i never got confused about my reality and my dream.