Special relativity-Flawed?

[spunnery]

Let me start without introduction.(Please see attachment for the figures).Let us first go through the first postulate of special relativity.

This states that,”Speed of light is same for all observer’s, no matter what their relative speeds are”.

It is little bit difficult to disprove this, because of the high speed of light. Let us try for any clue in any experiments that have been already performed. Let us go little deep in to the basic principle of the very same experiment, Michel son & Morley experiment, to find out the presence of Either. Please keep in mind we are analyzing only a part of the basic principle of experiment, and only considering the area of our interest.

Since I am putting this thread in a science forum, I am not explaining the experiment in detail. The basic principle of experiment is that the ray which is split into two mutually perpendicular rays will hit the mirrors kept equidistant from the splitter and come back to merge (only 50%) at splitter without any time delay. i.e., both the rays are taking equal time to travel equal distance. This experiment clearly proved that there is no either present; otherwise a delay will be shown in the ray, which is traveling against either or will be faster if along with the either.

What we have in this experiment to disprove special relativity?.

We are concerned about the path and time of rays from splitter to mirror and back in the normal direction of the ray.

Let us examine the case from inside an inertial frame, without considering the movement of earth (see figure)

To obtain more accuracy and to avoid long figure after decimals, let us consider the length L =100,000 km.(I know it is impossible-for convenience only).So the total length traveled by the ray(we are interested in the normal -i.e. forward direction ray only), will be 2 x L = 200,000 km.

The time taken by light ray to travel this distance will be

T1 = 200,000/299,793(vel of light) = 0.66712698428 seconds

Now let us see this from an external reference frame, with the movement of earth taken into consideration. Here we are considering the straight-line movement of earth. Since sun is traveling at a speed of 217 km/sec. earth is also traveling at this speed to be in its orbit. Ignore the rotational movement and revolutionary movement of earth, since it will hardly make a curvature in the path for a small time fraction of 0.66712698428 seconds. see figure

Give a considerable movement for earth ,Since the velocity of light is too much compared to that of earth .Say we are including the movement of our galaxy ,and consider it as 2170 km /sec(who knows may be more).The forward ray started from splitter will meet the mirror at a distance d1 as shown in figure at a time T2.

 

Distance d1 = 299,793 x T2

Also d1 =L + 217 x T2 = 100,000 + 2170 x T2

 

So

299793 x T2 = 100,000 + 2170 x T2 ; solving equation,

 

T2 = 0.33599553797.

 

So d1 = 0.33599553797 x 299793

= 100,729.110314 km

remaining time T3 = T1 – T2 = 0.33113144631

 

If light travel at a velocity of 299793 ,the distance traveled in time T3 will be 0.33113144631 x 299793 = 99,270.8896836

 

Distance to be traveled ,from sketch = d1 – 2170 x T1

 

= 100,729.110314 – 2170 x 0.66712698428 = 99281.444759

you’ll find a difference of 10.4 km

to get more precise,

 

make the value of movement of earth as 10,000 km /sec

 

So

299793 x T2 =100,000 + 10,000 x T2;

 

T2 = 0.34507389757

 

So d1 = 0.34507389757 x 299793

 

= 103,450.738 km

remaining time

 

= T3 = T1 –T2 = 0.32205308671

 

Distance light ray will travel in this time will be 0.32205308671 x 299793

 

= 96,549.261 km

Distance to be traveled as per sketch.

 

= d1 – 10,000 x t1

 

= 103450.738 – 6671.26984

 

=96779.468 km

This discrepancy can be avoided if we give a relative velocity to light with respect to the frame of reference.

This can be seen more evident if you go for the calculation of the perpendicular ray.

 

Shall I say the first postulate of a theory for century is flawed?

 

I am not sure about this . I await a good response ,especially from senior members like Swansont,farsight,insane_alien, Bignose etc .want to hear something hits the logic and assumptions.

[Klaynos]

I got bored about 3/4 of the way through, mainly because I'm in a bit of a rush and have seen MANY threads like this before.

 

What do you say about the fact that the experiment has been conducted and given the same result on different places on the earth?

 

How do you explain all the experiment results.

 

How do you explain HOW Maxwell's equations can be consistent at different velocities if the speed of light is not?

[spunnery]

I got bored about 3/4 of the way through, mainly because I'm in a bit of a rush and have seen MANY threads like this before.

 

What do you say about the fact that the experiment has been conducted and given the same result on different places on the earth?

 

How do you explain all the experiment results.

 

How do you explain HOW Maxwell's equations can be consistent at different velocities if the speed of light is not?

Go through it when you have time ,please.I need some valuable feed back from experts like you. it is not a hypothesis. it is only some basic doubts.Same result means every time,everywhere it showed a null result and i am not questioning that result.And i am 100% sure about the non existence of either,because of the result.

[Farsight]

I'm sorry spunnery, you're wrong. Special Relativity is right. The speed of light is the same for all observers. However the reason for the postulate is rather difficult to grasp. It's because, as Einstein said, "time is suspect". Once you understand it, it takes you into new areas based upon a new interpetation of Special Relativity, but you don't end up saying it's wrong.

[Klaynos]

I'm sorry spunnery, you're wrong. Special Relativity is right. The speed of light is the same for all observers. However the reason for the postulate is rather difficult to grasp. It's because, as Einstein said, "time is suspect". Once you understand it, it takes you into new areas based upon a new interpetation of Special Relativity, but you don't end up saying it's wrong.

 

It's easier to grasp if you attack it from the direction of electrodynamics. The invariance of c is the ONLY way that maxwell's equations can work everywhere.

[spunnery]

I'm sorry spunnery, you're wrong. Special Relativity is right. The speed of light is the same for all observers. However the reason for the postulate is rather difficult to grasp. It's because, as Einstein said, "time is suspect". Once you understand it, it takes you into new areas based upon a new interpetation of Special Relativity, but you don't end up saying it's wrong.

Please let me know ,if my calculations are wrong? or may be my assumption about earth movement is wrong?.How somebody can beleive in a postulate which have no reasoning?.

[foodchain]

Please let me know ,if my calculations are wrong? or may be my assumption about earth movement is wrong?.How somebody can beleive in a postulate which have no reasoning?.

 

Being not an expert I am just a bit confused as to what you are asking? As far as I know save for various experiments that aim to slow down light or for what that means may not apply aside, light travels at the speed of light or its a constant? As for your math and your words or logic, do you mean to apply maybe variables of say what effects behavior of the galaxy in total into the equation for the speed of light, or maybe just the earth, or possibly room temperature and chemical composition? I would simply that that such math would be a huge equation and really we cant plug in all the variables that you might want? I think the best way you could attempt to judge that would be simply something that collects light as it comes into the earth, and then outside of the earth, and basically check if the light is constant in speed, you could slow down or speed up a satellite to check this also, and the same could be done on the ground. You could even apply a monitoring device for such on the moon and have it change as to see impacts it has.

 

Overall if I understand it correctly you are looking to see if the speed of light is relative or a product of the environment it may come from, or interact with maybe? I always looked at light or characteristics of it as a tool to gauge other physical phenomena with, or at least that’s what I get from it. Thats if I am even close to understanding what you are talking about of course:D

[ErlyRisa]

It's called the elevator experiment....

 

Einstein was a lazy bugger.

 

he explained everything colloquially... mainly because he knew that is the only way we would have any hope of believing him.

 

--when Einstein refers to an observer... he is reffering to matter.

 

The elevator experiment for example, arises confusion in a Rotating reference.

 

For example, centripital motion can be considered Anti G ? for the satellite body.

 

If this pattern (centripital motion) = -G, then what is the pattern that defines G.

 

--When you understand the G pattern... you may besome at one! with the universe... just make sure you teach others. as Colloquially and abstractly as I have once you understand... we are not ready yet (I still can't move a CUP)