Prayer in medicine

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

A new study suggests that prayer actually does give a positive effect.

 

"This is the most thorough and all-inclusive study of its kind on this controversial subject that I am aware of," said Hodge. "It suggests that more research on the topic may be warranted, and that praying for people with psychological or medical problems may help them recover."

 

Of course, I still remember the last study, which suggested that prayer on behalf of a patient was ineffective, and even a bad thing when the patient was aware of it. And so now I have to wait to see what the reaction to the latest one is.

 

What's your take?

[insane_alien]

any effect that is present would likely just be a branch of the placebo effect. if people think it will make a difference.

 

i'm not convinced there is an effect though. i didn't see anything relating to whether the patients knew they were being prayed for or not.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

Yes, I'd like to see the full text of the study so I can see how they did it.

[D H]

This smacks of the metastudies used to "prove" all kinds of things. I can pull many different rabbits out of a hat by playing games with statistics on other people's studies.

 

There are liars, damn liars, and statisticians.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

There was an article in the Economist recently about studies using improper statistical techniques, but it was specifically about studies that check multiply hypotheses at once.

[D H]

Meta-analyses are widely used and widely suspect in the medical field. It is far too easy to play games to bend the results in the desired direction and it is far too easy to fall prey to problems like Simpson's paradox. I think the latter is particularly applicable here, as the placebo effect is a giant lurking variable.

[kreation]

Yes, I'd like to see the full text of the study so I can see how they did it.

 

i agree, although im already horribly biased on this one i must admit, i prefere to rely on tryed and tested logic rather then blind faith to solve problems in life, especially those relating to illness, since i havn't read the full report it just seems like more of a comfort thing (preying) rather then a real difference maker in relation to health

[Dak]

Meta-analyses are widely used and widely suspect in the medical field. It is far too easy to play games to bend the results in the desired direction and it is far too easy to fall prey to problems like Simpson's paradox. I think the latter is particularly applicable here, as the placebo effect is a giant lurking variable.

 

Which is why stuff is peer-reviewed; i assume 'Research on Social Work Practice' is a peer-reviewed journal?

 

i'd like to read the meta-analysis, to see wether the patients knew that they were being prayed for (i.e., allows placebo), or didn't (i.e., doesn't allow placebo by our current knowledge).

[Anilyzest]

A new study suggests that prayer actually does give a positive effect.

 

 

 

Of course, I still remember the last study, which suggested that prayer on behalf of a patient was ineffective, and even a bad thing when the patient was aware of it. And so now I have to wait to see what the reaction to the latest one is.

 

What's your take?

Can prayer cure illness? I don't think so. If you are a believer it may help you to live with a disease, say diabetes for instance, but it cannot replace conventional medical treatment, like insulin injections. To suggest otherwise is to mislead the patient.

[ecoli]

Can prayer cure illness? I don't think so. If you are a believer it may help you to live with a disease, say diabetes for instance, but it cannot replace conventional medical treatment, like insulin injections. To suggest otherwise is to mislead the patient.

 

What these people should beleive, is that their prayers to God are answered in the FORM of modern medicine. To reject treatment based on religious beliefs, would be like rejecting God's help.

That's wht I believe, anyway.

[quan chi2]

Prayer doesn't work. There were two deaths in my family two years ago when I was a freshman in high school within an eight month period. You know how Christian the people were that died? I bet they were praying while they were dying. No offense to anyone, but prayer just doesn't work. It's all science all the way.

[Cap'n Refsmmat]

If you were a scientist, you'd realize that an anecdotal story doesn't make evidence for or against anything.

 

That's why I posted a link to a scientific study.

[ecoli]

If you were a scientist, you'd realize that an anecdotal story doesn't make evidence for or against anything.

 

That's why I posted a link to a scientific study.

 

and if you're not a scientist, that means, simply reporting one or two cases, without quantifying your results doesn't mean very much. Statistically, it doesn't make for a powerful argument, and there is no variable being tested in a controlled setting.

 

Anecdotal evidence can shape opinions, for sure, but shouldn't be used to make a scientific argument.

[Anilyzest]

What these people should beleive, is that their prayers to God are answered in the FORM of modern medicine. To reject treatment based on religious beliefs, would be like rejecting God's help.

That's wht I believe, anyway.

Does ecoli believe that illness is a punishment from God? I mention diabetes which is brought about by the pancreas failing to produce enough or any natural insulin. The treatment involves daily injections of manufactured insulin for the rest of the patient's life. Surely it is too much of a coincidence for God to invent a failure of the pancreas and then to conveniently to invent the treatment. Would it not have been simpler in the first place not to allow the organ to fail?

[Phi for All]

I've always believed a positive outlook is preferable to a negative one. If prayer helps you stay positive, that's great. I think some people who pray are looking for very specific outcomes and are often disappointed.

 

If the placebo works, use it.

Does ecoli believe that illness is a punishment from God? I mention diabetes which is brought about by the pancreas failing to produce enough or any natural insulin. The treatment involves daily injections of manufactured insulin for the rest of the patient's life. Surely it is too much of a coincidence for God to invent a failure of the pancreas and then to conveniently to invent the treatment. Would it not have been simpler in the first place not to allow the organ to fail?

Let's be careful here, we're not debating supernatural reasoning but rather the efficacy of prayer in medicine. Let's not cross the line into religion and specific religious beliefs.

[ecoli]

Does ecoli believe that illness is a punishment from God? I mention diabetes which is brought about by the pancreas failing to produce enough or any natural insulin. The treatment involves daily injections of manufactured insulin for the rest of the patient's life. Surely it is too much of a coincidence for God to invent a failure of the pancreas and then to conveniently to invent the treatment. Would it not have been simpler in the first place not to allow the organ to fail?

I'm going to answer your question, but if you have any rebuttals... PM them to me. TFN is the place for this sort of comment.

 

A: If God is all powerful, it isn't really any extra effort, is it. Perhaps he wants to test human potential and willingness to work to help fellow man... or a million other answers.