Fractal Universe

[mamakosj]

What are people's views on the theory that the universe could be fractal rather than uniform?

[julesruis]

I think the world is a fractal space from universe to atom/particles.

 

For more information about fractals see: http://www.fractal.org and use the search engine for interesting answers on your questions.

 

Jules Ruis.

[bascule]

What are people's views on the theory that the universe could be fractal rather than uniform?

 

Do I believe the universe has properties which are shared by fractals? Yes

 

Do I believe the universe *is* a fractal? No

 

A "fractal" is an object whose Hausdorff-Besicovitch dimension exceeds its topological dimension.

[Sisyphus]

Yeah, what does "fractal" mean in that context? Obviously not the literal meaning...

[mamakosj]

sorry... let me rephrase slightly...

 

I read an article in 'New Scientist' a couple of weeks back, and it basically stated a theory that the universe could be a 'fractal' in that when zoomed out, it would form the same shapes as if you were looking at a smaller area under a higher magnification.

[Sisyphus]

The SAME shapes, or just "shapes?" I could see making an argument (though I don't know how you could possibly prove it) that the universe has distinct structures on any scale, but those structures are pretty obviously different, no?

[fredrik]

I haven't seen the article, but a wild guess is maybe something like "information fractcal" maybe? No matter what scale you're at, it can be given an abstract information interpretation that gives you the distinct deja vu feeling that you've been there before, though you really haven't, but the abstraction of the place is repeating.

 

/Fredrik

[julesruis]

Here is the link to the article:

 

http://www.fractal.org/Bewustzijns-Besturings-Model/Is-the-universe-a-fractal-space.htm

[insane_alien]

it isn't the same shapes but the same patterns. like how you can get tiny vortices in tanks and they'll behave the same as massive vortices in oceans.

[GutZ]

I don't understand the significance of this. help.

 

::edit::

 

Not the OT but the fractral thing

[mamakosj]

Ok, sorry. I used the wrong words to state my point. Now that 'julesruis' has kindly posted a link to the article, can we get back to my original question?

 

What are people's views on this - do you agree or disagree, and why?

[fredrik]

I sensed the article was very too focused on the "hands on visual spacetime" than what's in my taste. The last section of the scale relativity was very thin, and I never looked into it. I am also not sure I share the obsession with fractals, like the assumption that whatever you come up with, it needs to be in the language of fractals?

 

If it turns out to be fractal, I will certainly accept it. If not, I'll accept that to. Untile we know, anything remains possible right? But, right now, I see no reason to spend the rest of my life doing nothing but fractal studies or anything, trying to find the fractal patterns in the universe.

 

But it seems that author has an underlying first principle thinking goes beyond this that argues WHY the universe "MUST" be fundementally fractal, and definie more specifically what fractal construction of the universe means in what setting. It's apparently a fuzzy formulation. But this argumentation was missing?

 

I think there is a set of univeral and possibly recursive for how the universe evolves. Whether this turns out fractal like in some abstract way, or just share fractal like properties, I don't know.

 

/Fredrik

[Red_Ninja]

Since I read Gleick's book on chaos back about 10 or more years ago, I've been quite sure it was only a matter of time before we found some fractal property to the cosmos, as it seems absurd that systems with fractal properties would be confined to sub-galactic or even sub-planetary sizes.

 

The team that are proponents of the fractal structure are arguing that gravity along should only have been able to create super-galactic structures some 30 million light years in size or, and some structures like the 'great wall' absoloutely dwarf that. Others are arguing that future deep sky surveys will show that the universe is homogenous at its largest scales.

 

Personally I think there will be evidence of even larger structure.

 

The interesting thing about it is that a universe with a fractal structure in terms of matter distribution really complicates things for the standard cosmological model, which basically requires that the universe be homogenous. Personally I think that might be the motivation behind the people opposed to this idea. I guess the deeper sky surveys that are going to eventually get done will put the issue to bed.

 

But if the universe does have a fractal structure we're going to have to explain how this structure was seeded in even before inflation occured (if indeed it did at all).