does positive thinking really help?

[gib65]

This is a question I've always wondered about. Sometimes I've tried using positive thinking to bring myself out of a miserable mood - sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. I think I'm one of those people whose thoughts are more burdened by emotions than the other way around.

 

My first question: are there any studies that show that positive thinking can alleviate bad moods to a higher degree than would be expected from a placebo effect?

 

Second question: are there any studies that show a causal relationship (thoughts effecting mood) rather than just a correlation?

[Sisyphus]

Define "positive thinking."

[fredrik]

When I think of "positive thinking", to me it reflects that fact that you should focus on the constructive, not the desctructive. I think everyone has to find a way of thinking that works for their personality. I like challanges, and when things look bad I can take as a personal challange to do what seems impossible at the time. At that point the darkness turns into an opportunity I just can't miss. I think it is by no means so simple that straight success is the best lesson. Sometimes bad things can be valuable too.

 

I think it makes sense. However, to kind of tell someone else "think positive" just doesn't work like that. I think the meaning of "positive thinking" is someone each one of us has to find out what it means, because the words themselves says almost nothing. I think there are some things that we have to do on our own. Other people can be inspiration and help but they can not do it for us.

 

But not all people are like me, so what works for me doesn't work for everyone.

 

/Fredrik

[gib65]

Define "positive thinking."

 

The most general definition I can think of is "thinking happy thoughts" - at least, this is the way I've always interpreted it. Some people say that if they're in a foul mood, all they have to do is think about the good and the mood goes away. This has never worked for me. Whenever I'm depressed or angry, I'll dwell over how much "life sucks" and although I'll trying thinking "Life doesn't suck. Life is great!" it doesn't make me feel any better.

 

I think fredrik got it right when he said it works differently for each person. For me, positive thinking works only when I can really believe in the positive thoughts. In the above example, if I told myself "Life doesn't suck. Life is great!" my mind would immediately retort with "Oh yeah? Why is life so great?" If I don't have a good rational answer for this, it will be powerless to improve my mood. It has to be something for which I can say "Hey, I've never thought of it like that before. That makes sense!"

 

Anyway, I just wanted to know if I was the only one who really had to work hard at crafting just the right kinds of positive thoughts in order for them to work. In other words, I wanted to know if, by and large, people could think things as simple as "Life doesn't suck. Life is great!" to get themselves out of their miseries. Are there any studies that shed some light on this?

[geoguy]

When I think of "positive thinking", to me it reflects that fact that you should focus on the constructive, not the desctructive. I think everyone has to find a way of thinking that works for their personality. I like challanges, and when things look bad I can take as a personal challange to do what seems impossible at the time. At that point the darkness turns into an opportunity I just can't miss. I think it is by no means so simple that straight success is the best lesson. Sometimes bad things can be valuable too.

 

I think it makes sense. However, to kind of tell someone else "think positive" just doesn't work like that. I think the meaning of "positive thinking" is someone each one of us has to find out what it means, because the words themselves says almost nothing. I think there are some things that we have to do on our own. Other people can be inspiration and help but they can not do it for us.

 

But not all people are like me, so what works for me doesn't work for everyone.

 

/Fredrik

 

Good post. I like your use of the word 'challenge'. I also like to substitute this word for 'problem', etc.

[fredrik]

For me, positive thinking works only when I can really believe in the positive thoughts. In the above example, if I told myself "Life doesn't suck. Life is great!" my mind would immediately retort with "Oh yeah? Why is life so great?" If I don't have a good rational answer for this, it will be powerless to improve my mood. It has to be something for which I can say "Hey, I've never thought of it like that before. That makes sense!"

 

I'm totally with you here Gibs, it works the same for me. There is no way you can fool yourself that easily, that would be too easy I often manage to find just that rational answer you refer to, my way of thinking is probably individual though. I have found a way to be intrigued by my own reactions at times, and be able to sort of step outside and try to analyze myself by in a neutral manner try to observe my own mode of thinking. That way I manage to get myself out of any the moody irrational emotions, into a more analytic mode and even learn something new. Not about something specific, but about the brain and reality.

 

Anyway, I just wanted to know if I was the only one who really had to work hard at crafting just the right kinds of positive thoughts in order for them to work. In other words, I wanted to know if, by and large, people could think things as simple as "Life doesn't suck. Life is great!" to get themselves out of their miseries. Are there any studies that shed some light on this?

 

I don't know of any studies, but I think you are not alone. To think it would be as simple and "think about naken women or candy" and life gets good, is just baloney IMO. We are too smart for such tricks to work.

 

/Fredrik

[gib65]

That way I manage to get myself out of any the moody irrational emotions, into a more analytic mode and even learn something new. Not about something specific, but about the brain and reality.

 

Wow, if only everyone had insights that deep when they used positive think:-)

 

 

I don't know of any studies' date=' but I think you are not alone. To think it would be as simple and "think about naken women or candy" and life gets good, is just baloney IMO. We are too smart for such tricks to work.

 

/Fredrik[/quote']

 

Well, I don't know if it's baloney - I think it actually works for some people, but my guess is they're the suggestable type. That is, they believe it works, and therefore it does work for them. Now the question is, if it works through the power of suggestion (or placebo effect), then is it really "just" suggestion?

[YT2095]

Yes it Does help.

 

but there`s a little more to it than just thinking fluffy bunnies and butterflies!

the "Trick" is to actually CATCH yourself thinking Negatively (this takes practice) but it involves stopping yourself during these "moments" of idleness and asking your brain What it`s Thinking.

and then examining it, if it`s unproductive then elliminate it and think of something else.

you`ll find at 1`st you`ll do about 10 seconds before you drift back into the old way again, so Stop and tackle it yet again, and KEEP DOING THIS!

 

eventualy it will become a habit.

 

are these thoughts good for me, are they Helping me etc...

if the answers No then deep 6 `em

 

as for the Epiphany as to Why it helps, think of this...

 

Is any of the worry or negative thinking going to solve the problem for you?

 

if the answers no, then WHY are you doing it?

[fredrik]

I guess the label "positive thinking" isn't all that descriptive, it's more like an everyday term?

 

I think the things we are talking about are the techniques we are discussing or should be discussing here is what is applied is what's called cognitive behavioural therapy (CBT). Like YT suggested it goes beyond superficial "thinking of bunnies", which alone hardly works, this is what I called "baloney".

 

I would like to say that the ideas of CBT principles is that you need to not only accept your thoughts, but reveal them. Take your brain with the pants down thinking bad thoughts! And this experience itself is self-rewarding not only because you break a destructive habit, but because due to the increased control and awareness! This can also bee a positive feedback, and provide a constructive, and continous way, out of the irrational thoughts. When you start to be able to analytically disassemble your own thinking you may reach a state when your analytic side laughs at your irrational thoughts as they come... you have sort of developed an mental antibody to your irrational thoughts that disarms them as they show up. And by the end of the journey you have actually learned something.

 

I'm not a psychiatrist but I've a person that always thinks alot, so this is technially my personal opinions. I have applies similar techniques to other fields. I have often tried to apply cognitive techniques when I solve other problems. And to study your brain, in action, so to speak is pretty interesting. Because you'll soon see that the brain while excellent at making associatiosn (seems to me at least) to make repeated use of certain repeating patterns of attacking things. I have also come to realise that I do use emotions also when I solve physics problems, although one may like to think it's just hard logic, but it's not. The logic still rests on a fuzzy ground. And new logic emerges from the fuzz too. I've even tried to draw parallells between the construction of the universe and my own brain, and I am convinced there are similarities between creation and learning. This is what I'm currently working on.

 

/Fredrik

[coberst]

I suspect positive thinking is valuable but I am confident that Critical Thinking is absolutly better than any other kind of thinking.

 

For a 12 to 18 years period from the age of 6 to our mid twenties we have lived constantly in an educational system wherein we seldom if ever learned to function intellectually independent of outside direction.

 

How is it possible for such an individual to develop the internal processes (bootstrap) that allow him or her to become an independent critically self-conscious thinker?

 

Like the PC setting in front of us we seem to have an automatic default position. Our default position is ‘reject’ when encountering any idea that does not fit in our already learned patterns and algorithms.

 

Somehow the individual must find a way to change that default position from ‘reject’ to ‘examine critically’. Of course—how do we every not reject this message?

 

 

Making good judgments is an important and complex matter. There are bad judgments, good judgments, and better judgments. To make better judgments requires many kinds of knowledge, skills, and character traits all working together.

 

 

The neophyte learns the moves that each piece can make, plays a few games and wanders away bewildered as to why anyone could take the matter seriously.

 

Like chess Critical Thinking is an asset that can influence the judgments one makes in all matters in their life. It can be a strategic tool or a tactical tool—it can change ones world view. It gives in accordance to the investment made.

[Realitycheck]

I think positive thinking is a very valuable tool to accomplish things that you want, to get yourself out of a bind, to overcome setbacks, just a good tool to apply to everyday life. I have had numerous challenges as I have recovered from a severe head injury and whiplash, survived 10 years of chiropractic malpractice, and experienced a spiritual awakening throughout all of that, subject to anyone and everyone else's opinion about how my brain should be organized.

 

To me, it's not so much about thinking happy thoughts and so forth as it is about manipulating your mind to overcome challenges and rising to the occasion, though staying positive in a polar sense definitely has its qualities in fitting in with the politically correct and mostly lawful world. Now, if it wasn't for those hard-headed, closet-case sociopaths ...

[YT2095]

In a way, the really Ironic part is that, the One and Only thing mankind has complete control over, it`s the one thing he chooses Not to!

His own Mind and Thinking.

 

Gotta Love Humans

[superprotege]

hmm...you guys have a really interesting discussion here.

i am unable to relate scientifically if positive thinking helps but deep inside me, i know it does. in fact many very successful men and women have attributed their success as a result of their positive thinking!

 

one man that i know of is bob proctor. recently i chanced upon a free interview report done with bob himself and i thought it was really an interesting read.. if you guys are keen, you can grab a free copy at

http://www.abundancemanifesting.com/freereport while it is still available.

 

hope it helps to shed some pointers in our discussion here

[Diana]

What you say to yourself first thing in the morning affects how you feel the rest of the day. You can 'train' your brain to make you depressed if you think negatively. It's better for your heart and mind to send those positive chemicals through your body and I believe that makes you healthier and happier over time.

[Phi for All]

Positive thinking opens you up to higher probabilities of positive things happening to you, imo. You usually find what your keeping an eye out for. Think of the opportunities you miss when you're thinking negatively. This is different from critical thinking. I know a lot of people who confuse the two.

 

Many people think negatively while trying to think positively (I won't crash the car, I will get out of debt, I won't be plagued by jerks today) so they sort of short-circuit themselves. You have to try to attract what you want rather than trying to repel what you don't want.

 

I've often wondered how you would devise a test for positive thinking. Since it's a state of mind it would be difficult to measure the subjects. How would you measure results from positive or negative thinking?

[Wormwood]

The most general definition I can think of is "thinking happy thoughts" - at least, this is the way I've always interpreted it. Some people say that if they're in a foul mood, all they have to do is think about the good and the mood goes away. This has never worked for me. Whenever I'm depressed or angry, I'll dwell over how much "life sucks" and although I'll trying thinking "Life doesn't suck. Life is great!" it doesn't make me feel any better.

 

I think fredrik got it right when he said it works differently for each person. For me, positive thinking works only when I can really believe in the positive thoughts. In the above example, if I told myself "Life doesn't suck. Life is great!" my mind would immediately retort with "Oh yeah? Why is life so great?" If I don't have a good rational answer for this, it will be powerless to improve my mood. It has to be something for which I can say "Hey, I've never thought of it like that before. That makes sense!"

 

Anyway, I just wanted to know if I was the only one who really had to work hard at crafting just the right kinds of positive thoughts in order for them to work. In other words, I wanted to know if, by and large, people could think things as simple as "Life doesn't suck. Life is great!" to get themselves out of their miseries. Are there any studies that shed some light on this?

 

"What you have become is the result of what you have thought." - Buddha

 

The idea that thoughts shape the world around you and your experience is very old. I'm not sure of what type of studies would give definitive answers on a subject like this. How can a clinical trail know if you were already going to have good luck, or if it was the result of your positive thinking? There is no reliable control in this method. Knowing this, all we have is anecdotal evidence which may vary in reliability. Having said that, I have seen the effects in my own life and I have to conclude that there is something to it for me personally.

 

I had the same problem with implementing this new way of thinking too. I constantly talked myself out of it. You have to retrain the mind in at least two different ways. First, as another poster said, you have to interrupt negative thought patterns as they occur. This has several effects like getting used to breaking the bad mood manually, but also if you continue to disrupt the undesirable mood, your cells will eventually develop less receptors for the messenger proteins utilized by the hypothalamus. This means your body will be less addicted to the bad moods, and your subconscious will set up fewer situations to allow that mood (in theory). Of course there will still be bumps in the road, but you will be in a better place to deal with them, and less addicted to the feeling meaning you will not continue to perpetuate the situation with bad responses once it has began.

 

The second way to train the mind is to start generating positive thought patterns. You said that you tell yourself that everything is great, and then you question yourself, asking what is so great about it. What I do in this situation is think of the things I am grateful for. I am healthy, I have a place to live, I eat everyday, I have wonderful friends, I have functioning eyes to read this screen, etc etc. I also find that it helps to put yourself in the situation you want to be in. By that I mean, if I want to be happy I think of a time when I was happy. I remember every single detail about how I felt, and try to falsely recreate that feeling using my imagination. It doesn't take long for the body to catch on and try to mimic the mood I'm creating. In my experience, it takes time and practice, but it definitely works.

[Diana]

Many people think negatively while trying to think positively (I won't crash the car, I will get out of debt, I won't be plagued by jerks today) so they sort of short-circuit themselves. You have to try to attract what you want rather than trying to repel what you don't want.

 

I've often wondered how you would devise a test for positive thinking. Since it's a state of mind it would be difficult to measure the subjects. How would you measure results from positive or negative thinking?

 

Terrific points! That pos-neg idea is so very true....I agree.

 

Also, the test would be to record a person's every thought for, say, a day or two. This would show patterns that would reveal their motivation, etc. I think that's the only way to test for such a thing. (Others may not agree, but that's my theory.)