British sailors taken by Iran

[Sisyphus]

I thought there should probably be a thread about this. From what I understand, 15 British naval personnel were taken prisoner in the Persian Gulf by Iran. The British claim it was in Iraqi waters, the Iranians claim it was in their waters. They're still being held, although the Iranians say they're going to release the one female sailor.

 

I don't understand why this isn't a bigger story. It could be taken as an act of war, couldn't it? Is that what Iran wants?

 

Luckily the Brits seem to understand how delicate the situation is, and are being firm but not evertly threatening. And it is a delicate situation. Iran can't be allowed to get away with abducting people, and the situation has to be resolved definitively and soon. At the same time, it could be incredibly dangerous to back them into a corner. It needs to be resolved in such a way that the world sees that Iran has backed down, but Ahmadinejad can still spin it so they don't have to admit losing face.

 

Anyway, thoughts?

[ecoli]

certainly, smaller acts of aggresion have instigated war in the past. I agree though, people should be taking this a lot more seriously. What little trust I had in iran is completely gone. And the libs still want them to help out in Iraq? It's ridiculous.

[Sisyphus]

What libs want that? People on this forum, you mean? I'm basically a liberal, and I hate the Iranian government. You know, because it's basically the most conservative government on Earth....

[ecoli]

What libs want that? People on this forum, you mean?

 

And Hollywood. Sean Penn keeps going on about how great and misunderstood Iran is. Apparantly, we're reading different newspapers.

[Sisyphus]

Can we just agree that Sean Penn is an idiot and move on?

 

EDIT: Actually, not that Sean Penn isn't an idiot, but what context are you talking about? The government is scary as hell, sure, but popular opinion in Iran? I think it's fair to say we don't understand that at all.

[ecoli]

Can we just agree that Sean Penn is an idiot and move on?

 

not if people are listening to him and agreeing with him. Which, I'm not sure is true, but I'm sure at least some people are stupid enough to listen to him.

[Dak]

I don't understand why this isn't a bigger story. It could be taken as an act of war, couldn't it? Is that what Iran wants?

 

it's being given front-page treatment in the UK:

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/

 

(direct link to story for when something else is front-page: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/6502947.stm)

 

i was going to say that it's allways possible that we were in their waters, but:

 

The first British tactic had been to offer Iran an easy way out by giving it the GPS reading and suggesting that it might have made a mistake.

 

Iran at first offered a different co-ordinate' date=' according to British officials, and then, when it was pointed out that this was in Iraqi waters, another reading was given, this time on the Iranian side. [/quote']

 

looks like iran just yoinked our soldures... hmm... act of war indeed. maybe we'll send some special forses in to rescue them if diplomacy doesn't work?

[insane_alien]

http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/03/28/mod_iran_seizure_gps_photo/

 

if you look at this you'll see that the iranians (first)said that they abducted the sailors in iraqi waters not iranian waters. when we brits pointed that out they quickly changed the coordinates by a few miles.

 

personally i think the iranians are full of crap and hoping for retaliation of some kind. i don't know why though. but it seems like thats the only reason they would do it if they were within iraqi waters

[Klaynos]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Iranian_seizure_of_Royal_Navy_personnel

 

good ol' wp

 

Even if the British boats where in Iranian waters, the treaties which govern such things, which Iran has agreed to state that the boats have sovereign immunity and all they can do is request that they leave their teritorial waters immediately.

[ParanoiA]

Yeah, I'm not sure why this isn't front page stuff here in the states. I've been keeping an eye out for it, but I've had to dig to find anything - weird.

 

Honestly, I thought Britain would have declared war by now. Mainly because I think the allied powers would love to just trample over Iran. I'm glad they haven't, but I wouldn't be surprised if this blew up into an armed conflict of some kind.

 

I'm half tempted to take the liberal approach on this just to prove a point - that the Iranians are just trying to protect themselves in the wake of so much negative opinion concerning their nuke status and Britain helped to create this animosity due the illegal war in Iraq. The Iranians are to be sympathized with and the Brits to be put in their place.

 

But, that would be fake. Iran is a spoiled child in the form of a hostile state. I think they just want attention and to showboat for their people. Someone here at work mentioned the Iranians want an admittance of guilt so they can hang them.

[ecoli]

I think Iran is testing the limits of Western stupidity. Just trying to see how much the can get away with each time. I wonder what they'll do next.

[geoguy]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_Iranian_seizure_of_Royal_Navy_personnel

 

good ol' wp

 

Even if the British boats where in Iranian waters, the treaties which govern such things, which Iran has agreed to state that the boats have sovereign immunity and all they can do is request that they leave their teritorial waters immediately.

 

Ya, sure. Just as Britain and the USA would do if the Iranian navy was in British waters after invading Ireland and including Britain in the same 'Axis of Evil'.

 

Tell you what: Dress up as an Iranian sailor,put an Iranian flag on your boat and sail into N.Y. Harbour. don't worry because you'll only be asked to leave.

[John Cuthber]

If taking people and imprisoning them for no clear reason is an act of war then, thanks to Guantanamo bay , Brittain and Australia (among others) should declare war on the USA.

Diplomacy seems like a better bet.

I suspect the Iranian sabre rattling is more to do with propaganda aimed at the Iranian people. I feel sorry for those taken prisoner and for their fammilies but I really don't see a military solution to this.

[ParanoiA]

Tell you what: Dress up as an Iranian sailor,put an Iranian flag on your boat and sail into N.Y. Harbour. don't worry because you'll only be asked to leave.

 

Not true. The democrats will wave them in and GWB will give them amnesty. No one will check them or their boat for weapons since that would be racial profiling...

[geoguy]

Not true. The democrats will wave them in and GWB will give them amnesty. No one will check them or their boat for weapons since that would be racial profiling...

 

True. Bush would probably mix up the countries anyways. Do something dumb like attack Iraq instead...wait, already did that one.

[ParanoiA]

True. Bush would probably mix up the countries anyways. Do something dumb like attack Iraq instead...wait, already did that one.

 

 

Haha..yeah, because as everyone will agree - whatever the nationality of the terrorist is OBVIOUSLY the nation responsible right?

 

yeah, that's way smarter than GWB...I'll bet the enemy never thought of that one...

[geoguy]

If taking people and imprisoning them for no clear reason is an act of war then, thanks to Guantanamo bay , Brittain and Australia (among others) should declare war on the USA.

Diplomacy seems like a better bet.

I suspect the Iranian sabre rattling is more to do with propaganda aimed at the Iranian people. I feel sorry for those taken prisoner and for their fammilies but I really don't see a military solution to this.

 

Britain can't do anything without the ok and support from master George. The once proud British have voluntarily handed over their sovereignty to their former colony. It's a good thing for the British that Blair has such a high regard for his commander and chief, Bush. British action vis-a-vis Iran is up to Washington. Bush and Cheney managed to accomplish what the Spanish armada, Napolean and the German Reich failed to do. Nelson must be spinning on his column.

[Sisyphus]

I suspect the Iranian sabre rattling is more to do with propaganda aimed at the Iranian people.

 

I think you're almost certainly right. They're trying to make it look like they're not afraid of NATO. And maybe provoke a rash response along with it, so they can rally against it. The British can undermine the whole thing just by acting calm and reasonable.

 

I think Iran is testing the limits of Western stupidity. Just trying to see how much the can get away with each time. I wonder what they'll do next.

 

What would you have the British government do that wouldn't be "stupid?"

[Pangloss]

This reminds me somewhat of the incident with Cuba and the Brothers to the Rescue fiasco, at least with regard to the position determinations in open water.

 

It also reminds me of the Pueblo incident.

[ParanoiA]

This BS confession, manipulation and sick exploitation of these prisoners really has me steaming this morning. I guess it's good I'm not running the show because I would have already ordered an invasion at this point.

 

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,262643,00.html

 

I'm not sure that there shouldn't be an immediate military response. It's supposed to be all for one and one for all and they are disgracing those people - making them say shit that for one, isn't true, and for two, has nothing to do with this seizure.

 

This is an act of war and they should be rescued militarily.

[Haezed]

I don't understand why this isn't a bigger story. It could be taken as an act of war, couldn't it? Is that what Iran wants?

 

The Iranians got away with an act of war until the day Reagan was inaugerated. Now they are testing the Brits. We'll see.

 

FWIW, The answer to the question is because the main stream media in America along with Bush are downplaying the situation. There is a rare moment of alignment in their interests.

[geoguy]

The Iranians got away with an act of war until the day Reagan was inaugerated. Now they are testing the Brits. We'll see.

 

FWIW, The answer to the question is because the main stream media in America along with Bush are downplaying the situation. There is a rare moment of alignment in their interests.

 

Read the history of Iran before the religious nutbars came to power. The USA got away with a coup in Iran in the 1950's with training the Shah's death squads. The seizing of the American hostages was a response to American atrocities against the Iranian people. They didn't just wake up one morning and start screaming Death to America.

 

It's disturbing how uninformed many Americans are of their torture-training of the secret police of countries as diverse as Iran and Chile.

[ecoli]

Read the history of Iran before the religious nutbars came to power. The USA got away with a coup in Iran in the 1950's with training the Shah's death squads. The seizing of the American hostages was a response to American atrocities against the Iranian people. They didn't just wake up one morning and start screaming Death to America.

 

It's disturbing how uninformed many Americans are of their torture-training of the secret police of countries as diverse as Iran and Chile.

 

two wrongs don't make a right.

[john5746]

The Iranians got away with an act of war until the day Reagan was inaugerated. Now they are testing the Brits. We'll see.

 

Yes, Warren Christopher arranged the release with the Algiers Accords. When Hezzbollah took more hostages, Reagan did the Iran/Contra deal.

Meanwhile, the US supplied Saddam to keep the Iran/Iraq war going.

 

Hopefully, the Brits will do better.

 

FWIW, The answer to the question is because the main stream media in America along with Bush are downplaying the situation. There is a rare moment of alignment in their interests.

 

Last thing those British soldiers need is a "Let's get 'em" quote from Bush.

 

Get them home, then drive some real ships up in their waters.

[Haezed]

Read the history of Iran before the religious nutbars came to power. The USA got away with a coup in Iran in the 1950's with training the Shah's death squads. The seizing of the American hostages was a response to American atrocities against the Iranian people. They didn't just wake up one morning and start screaming Death to America.

 

It's disturbing how uninformed many Americans are of their torture-training of the secret police of countries as diverse as Iran and Chile.

 

Lol. Your history lesson was unnecessary and not really to my point.