Rosie v. Imus

[Haezed]

Should they go?

 

Imus' defense is that he is a good person and is very sorry for calling young women who made it to the peak of intercollegiate women's basketball, "nappy headed hos."

 

Rosie appears to have no defense but can we expect an insane person without a lawyer to know to plead insanity?

[Sisyphus]

Should they go where?

 

Seriously, though, you're talking about two people I've always considered annoying jackasses. Apparently they both said thoughtless things recently that, for some reason, people have chosen to get especially upset about. I can't imagine where people find the energy.

 

That goes for any stupid faux pas of famous but powerless people. Who cares? It would matter if the President was racist, but some talk radio guy? Or like Anne Coulter. At regular intervals she says something intentionally outrageous so people will demand apologies and she can cast herself as martyr to "the PC police" or whatever. What most of her critics don't realize is that her entire career is built on being outrageous and ridiculous to get attention and to provoke people into overreacting. Ignore her and she'll go away.

[Phi for All]

I can't imagine where people find the energy.

They suck the energy from the batteries in the remote!

Ignore her and she'll go away.

Oh, thank you for that!

[Haezed]

Should they go where?

 

Australia?

 

Seriously, off the air, I suppose. MSNBC suspended IMUS for two weeks and O'Donnell is still alive and spewing.

 

Apparently they both said thoughtless things recently that, for some reason, people have chosen to get especially upset about. I can't imagine where people find the energy.

 

Hearing 9/11 conspiracy theories in a mainstream media is more than a little disconcerting. I'm sure you find calling young women who competed at the highest level of collegiate athletics in a near Ivy league school "nappy headed whores" to be a little more than "thoughtless." (What is nappy headed, anyway? I assume it has to do with the texture of hair?)

 

That goes for any stupid faux pas of famous but powerless people.

 

There is more here this time than mere faux pas.

 

I also think you very much underestimate the power of this ilk. You shouldn't assume that just because you are smart enough to think for yourself that everyone does.There are millions who tune into Rush every single work day to get fed want they want to hear. Same goes for Mayer, Coulter, O'Donnell, etc.

 

Or like Anne Coulter. At regular intervals she says something intentionally outrageous so people will demand apologies and she can cast herself as martyr to "the PC police" or whatever. What most of her critics don't realize is that her entire career is built on being outrageous and ridiculous to get attention and to provoke people into overreacting.

 

Anne Coulter is a special case. She is half self parody these days.

 

Ignore her and she'll go away.

 

This is wishful thinking on your part. These people's influence, which is greater than a Russert or a Stephanopoulos is not to be underestimated.

[Phi for All]

Australia?

 

Seriously, off the air, I suppose. MSNBC suspended IMUS for two weeks and O'Donnell is still alive and spewing.

Unfortunately, the shock-jock's fans don't listen to them nearly as much as their detractors. I remember hearing that Howard Stern's fans listened to him for an average of 45 minutes a day and the people who hated him listened for like 4 hours. Suspension and threats of pulling their shows due to complaints are just tactics to boost ratings.

 

Oddly, in the backwards world of media, negativity sells better. Talk show hosts are like car wrecks; the more horrible they are the more people can't look away.

[Haezed]

Unfortunately, the shock-jock's fans don't listen to them nearly as much as their detractors. I remember hearing that Howard Stern's fans listened to him for an average of 45 minutes a day and the people who hated him listened for like 4 hours. Suspension and threats of pulling their shows due to complaints are just tactics to boost ratings.

 

Oddly, in the backwards world of media, negativity sells better. Talk show hosts are like car wrecks; the more horrible they are the more people can't look away.

 

I just think you are wrong. What may be true for Stern, is not true for Rush, O'Donnell, Imus, etc. Rush, for example, has a hugely loyal fan base.

 

Bill Mayer makes me want to vomit. I don't find him funny or intellectually interesting or honest, yet I don't have the slightest desire to watch the train wreck. Sure, they raise their public profile by shocking people but their bread and butter is selling people what they want to hear.

[Pangloss]

I've come to the general conclusion that fans of "The View" must see Rosie as that annoying next-door neighbor who always takes her children to anti-war rallies and brings petitions around for people to sign. You nod and look interested when they're talking to you and then when they walk away you just roll your eyes and change the subject.

 

Kinda like the way I've noticed many SFN regulars treat crackpots when they show up here. It's just easier than calling them out. YT's old saying about rolling with the pigs comes to mind.

[Pangloss]

Haezed do you mean Bill Maher by any chance? Not sure if you mean someone else by "Bill Mayer". If you mean Maher, I think he's quite funny, but then my funny bone (or for that matter my "entertainment" bone) has never been attached to my political/moral/ethical bone. I also enjoy reading Ann Coulter, even when I passionately disagree with her. Ditto Limbaugh, Franken, etc. (I don't find them all interesting, though. I've never been into Imus.)

 

I suppose if they weren't good at what they did then they wouldn't be very effective demogogues.

 

I'm a huge Neal Boortz fan, btw. Boortz was responsible for first igniting my interest in politics (as well as self-motivation and critical thinking), while in a dead-end job sitting in a photo development dropoff booth in the early 1980s.

[ecoli]

Haezed do you mean Bill Maher by any chance? Not sure if you mean someone else by "Bill Mayer". If you mean Maher, I think he's quite funny, but then my funny bone (or for that matter my "entertainment" bone) has never been attached to my political/moral/ethical bone. I also enjoy reading Ann Coulter, even when I passionately disagree with her. Ditto Limbaugh, Franken, etc. (I don't find them all interesting, though. I've never been into Imus.)

 

I suppose if they weren't good at what they did then they wouldn't be very effective demogogues.

 

I like listening to Savage... because he entertains me, for some reason. I don't always agree with him, especially about domestic social issues, but I respect him because he seems to have a very clear moral code and you can tell that he's proud to be an American (usually).

 

I think that type of nationalism is all too rare these days.

 

As for Imus, I think he can be funny sometimes...

 

He didn't insult my group, so I can't really get passionate about the issue. But, I know that if he had said something about my religion (or whatever) then I'd probably be pretty upset about it. I don't really think the Black community should forgive him... ignore him and let the situation diffuse.

[Pangloss]

I don't think I've ever actually heard Savage.

 

I tell you who I like is the guy who does all the voices. I forget his name, but he pretends to be his own guests, doing both his own voice and the voice of his guest, which will be someone really controversial. For example, he'll have on "the president of the national association for the advancement of men", and the "guest" will say something really stupid, and then a whole bunch of people will call in all outraged and stuff.

 

Cracks me up every time. Wish I could remember the guy's name.

[ecoli]

I know who you're talking about... the name escapes me too, at the moment.

[Haezed]

I've come to the general conclusion that fans of "The View" must see Rosie as that annoying next-door neighbor who always takes her children to anti-war rallies and brings petitions around for people to sign. You nod and look interested when they're talking to you and then when they walk away you just roll your eyes and change the subject.

 

Kinda like the way I've noticed many SFN regulars treat crackpots when they show up here. It's just easier than calling them out. YT's old saying about rolling with the pigs comes to mind.

 

Yes, Maher. My bad. The few times I listened to him I found him to be unfunny and, really, pretty stupid notwithstanding an occassional pithy phrase. His latest, "don't question my patriotism, traitor" is simultaneously dishonest and unfunny.

 

O'Donnell is pretty easy to dismiss until she starts spouting 9/11 conspiracy theories. That puts her in a dangeous category. Imus' comments were particularly hurtful to young women at the pinnacle of something they'd worked for all of their lives.

 

Words matter.

[ecoli]

Imus' comments were particularly hurtful to young women at the pinnacle of something they'd worked for all of their lives.

 

Not only that, interviews have proven these women to be well-spoken, intelligent individuals. I've heard that all of them maintain good GPAs at a prestigious university. They're response and willingness to have a private discussion with Imus on the matter proves their integrity, honesty and knowledge of their own worth and merit.

 

Meanwhile, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have, once again, have stepped out of their bounds, feeding into the media frenzy to get attention, by pretending to speak for the entire black community. Meanwhile, neither of them have a history of racism... both have made anti-Semitic and in Shapton's case, anti-White comments before. Yet nobody really pointed out this hypocrisy.

[Pangloss]

Personally I think they took the wrong path. They should have ignored him completely. Not because paying attention to it gives him free publicity, but because the entire incident is beneath them. If I were on that basketball team I'd have a serious problem with the way people were manipulating me. I'd speak out about it, and people would not like what I had to say one bit.

 

But then I pretty much loathe the politically correct entertainment machine, so I'm hardly objective about it.

[ecoli]

Personally I think they took the wrong path. They should have ignored him completely. Not because paying attention to it gives him free publicity, but because the entire incident is beneath them. If I were on that basketball team I'd have a serious problem with the way people were manipulating me. I'd speak out about it, and people would not like what I had to say one bit.

 

But then I pretty much loathe the politically correct entertainment machine, so I'm hardly objective about it.

 

I agree with you on all accounts... except, I doubt that they had much of a choice. The media was definitely screaming for an interview. Not to mention, I'm sure Rutgers wouldn't mind getting more press attention. I wouldn't be surprised if they were forced into it, in a way.

[Pangloss]

Meanwhile, Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton have, once again, have stepped out of their bounds, feeding into the media frenzy to get attention, by pretending to speak for the entire black community. Meanwhile, neither of them have a history of racism... both have made anti-Semitic and in Shapton's case, anti-White comments before. Yet nobody really pointed out this hypocrisy.

 

Right, he talks like he's never done anything wrong, and yet he's never going to sit down and apologize to the victims of the Tawana Brawley incident.

 

But that's okay, because she's black.

[Sisyphus]

Everyone knows that Jesse Jackson is the Emperor of Black People.

 

You know, I haven't heard the context of either of these things. Is it possible Imus was just making a "jocks are coddled" comment gone awry and not a... who knows what about black people comment?

[john5746]

Imus' remarks in context was comparing the looks of the Rutgers girls to the Tennessee girls. He was basically saying they looked low class. His attack was personal, against young women for no reason at all. Rosie's comments are usually not personal, except against Trump, who can defend himself. Anyone would get fired for saying what Imus or Coulter said.

 

While I agree that we shouldn't judge a person on a few sentences, I can't feel sorry for any of these talking heads. They get more money then we will ever see with very little talent for the most part. They have a right to free speech, but not a right to their job.

 

Imus and Rosie makes money by attracting viewers and sponsers. So, their companies will decide their fate - largely on public response. So if they irritate enough people or bore enough people, they will get the axe.

 

The Rutgers coach mentioned something about not allowing another persons words demean you. I like that comment, but the rest of her speech was about her trials and tribulations. She did say that the term ho's should not be used by anyone and demeans everyone, so that was good.

 

If there are inconsistencies, well that is life. We all have to deal with those, especially minorities. If white talking heads have to be more careful than others or conservatives have to be more careful, well that's life. They get paid well enough to be professional and take the heat.

[bascule]

Imus is nothing compared to Michael Savage. Or Ann Coulter. Ann doesn't even have to be actively broadcast over any distribution network, she just says controversial things and the networks are instantly drawn to repeating it. She owns the media. Wag the dog.

 

Do I think either should lose the opportunity to share their opinion? Well, they're using technological networks other people have paid for to do so.

 

If the owners of those networks feel the networks are being abused by these individuals, they're completely in the right to fire them and deny access.

 

I think they should then be free to move to whatever medium best suits them (not that I expect Michael Savage will be making any moves which don't garner him a larger audience)

 

If the question is whether the government should step in to do something here, absolutely not

[ParanoiA]

I didn't hear anything racist from Imus at all. He said something that sounded mean when not in context. When put into context, it's quite clear he was trying to be funny, using jargon he isn't knowledgable in, trying to say the Rutgers team looked tough, bad ass, or what not compared to the other team which looked soft and cuddley.

 

It was an off-handed, meaningless, humorous remark that shouldn't be dwelled on in any capacity. Anyone offened should grow up and get over themselves. I would have told Sharpton to go f*ck himself.

 

The only thing Imus did wrong was not using the lingo correctly. He should have been laughed at about it and made fun of on Saturday night live - I could imagine some hilarious skits involving the use of ebonics by white people incorrectly - old white people. Isn't there a southpark episode on that one??

 

Ann Coulter definitely gets controversial things going and I personally love it. I love it when anybody shows the hypocrisy of those who think they're holier than thou. The 9/11 widows is a perfect example. They want to do political commercials and align themselves on the political playing field, but then cry "foul" when they get criticized in the process. Just because you're a widow doesn't give you the right to practice politics with immunity.

 

The rutgers team isn't practicing politics or spreading opinions in the media on anything, so they certainly didn't deserve to be trashed - which is why I challenge the motives of those that pursued this issue with Imus. Why ruin their success with this worthless comment that didn't earn any attention?? Why? That's who should be apologizing - not Imus.

[Haezed]

be making any moves which don't garner him a larger audience)

 

If the question is whether the government should step in to do something here, absolutely not

 

No one has proposed government intervention. At least I haven't.

[Haezed]

I didn't hear anything racist from Imus at all.

 

I think nappy headed refers to the hair texture of black people. Yes, he was trying to be funny but good grief, it's like saying they were big lipped whores.

 

Anyone offened should grow up and get over themselves.

 

I feel all too grown up and I don't think I'm too into myself. I'm probably the least PC person I know, but this did go beyond the pale. Michael Richards was trying to be funny too.

 

Ann Coulter definitely gets controversial things going and I personally love it. I love it when anybody shows the hypocrisy of those who think they're holier than thou. The 9/11 widows is a perfect example. They want to do political commercials and align themselves on the political playing field, but then cry "foul" when they get criticized in the process. Just because you're a widow doesn't give you the right to practice politics with immunity.

 

I tend to agree with you about the 9/11 widows. They give me the creeps and I think Coulter did a service by calling them out.

 

The rutgers team isn't practicing politics or spreading opinions in the media on anything, so they certainly didn't deserve to be trashed - which is why I challenge the motives of those that pursued this issue with Imus. Why ruin their success with this worthless comment that didn't earn any attention?? Why? That's who should be apologizing - not Imus.

 

What? The Rutger's women didn't deserve to be trashed by Imus so you blame those who take Imus to task, which would include the Rutger's coach? Run that one by me again chief?

 

FWIW, I agree with some of what you say. I actually think Rosie's statement is worse than an offhanded rascist comment by Imus. She actually believes that sh*t and I'd bet $500 the Arab media jumped all over what she said.

[ParanoiA]

I think nappy headed refers to the hair texture of black people. Yes, he was trying to be funny but good grief, it's like saying they were big lipped whores.

 

But that's what I mean about not knowing how to use the lingo. When I say someone is "bad ass", you have a decent idea of what I mean per the context. If it's a guitar competition, I'm probably saying this guy is really good. If it's a boxing match, I'm saying this guy is really tough and good at fighting. If it's a beauty contest, you might give me a funny look, but you'd know I meant well.

 

I really think he was trying to say they looked bad ass, tough, mean, what have you and trying to use "edgy" lingo, that he isn't familiar with, in order to say it. Look, the black culture has glorified "pimps", "hoes" and etc and I've seen women call themselves "bitches" and so forth. I think he was just trying to take their cue and go with it. But he clearly doesn't understand what he's saying or how to use that language correctly.

 

It should have gotten a funny look, maybe a jear from his sidekick, at the most and should have never been brought up again. It wasn't important in the least. It's funnier, to me, hearing him screw up cool talk. Kind of like hearing 40 something radio jocks try to sound "cool" to teenagers. It's hilarious...because it's pathetic.

 

I feel all too grown up and I don't think I'm too into myself. I'm probably the least PC person I know, but this did go beyond the pale. Michael Richards was trying to be funny too.

 

But Michael Richards actually used the forbidden N word. The almighty powerful word, that has more power and control over humans than....well the human's common sense apparently.

 

I don't think Richards is a racist, but he did go the distance and get racial, even though I think the power of the N word is stupid and self defeating. To charge a word rather than intent is key to symbolism over substance. That's PC in a nutshell..in all of it's worthlessness.

 

What? The Rutger's women didn't deserve to be trashed by Imus so you blame those who take Imus to task, which would include the Rutger's coach? Run that one by me again chief?

 

They didn't get trashed by Imus. He said something stupid trying to be funny. That doesn't trash them. They didn't even know until someone told them and made a stink about it. When you repeat something out of context, it makes it way more relevant and personal than the original intent. This remark was about as important and impacting as the remark about the clean floors.

 

So, he's an idiot. He's an idiot that didn't spend the entire year trying to prove himself in basketball. He didn't beat anyone. He didn't fight the odds and bring home glory - Rutgers did. So why the hell is Imus getting their due? He's getting all of the attention instead of the Rutgers team. He didn't earn that. They did.

 

I blame the people that are using the situation to blow it all up out of proportion so white people can continue to make asses of themselves to make people believe they're not racist and so black people can continue to make asses of themselves and jump on any racial issue that validates their perceived oppression.

 

Those people should apologize for hijacking Rutger's moment of glory, and making an issue out of absolutely nothing. That's pathetic and shameful.

[Pangloss]

No one has proposed government intervention. At least I haven't.

 

Oh it's definitely been suggested out in the popular media.

[ParanoiA]

Oh it's definitely been suggested out in the popular media.

 

Really? I guess I'm not surprised, but I hadn't heard that. I'm sure it's coming around the corner. Anytime you start messing with free speech, you're screwing with our democracy. It's hard to convince people of stuff like that when they let their emotions defeat logic and empower vocabulary rather than the human intent.

 

You know...like how they say bullets kill people....